[FSPA] playoff qualifiers

Fri Sep 22 09:31:33 EDT 2017

Looking over the break outs and reading the comments my arguement is keep it simple. Just make it Final 4 make the cut. Doesn't seem like for time reasons anyone truely wants the 5 player format and the 3 player could be argued down to only leagues 12 players or fewer.

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From: FSPA <fspa-bounces at fspazone.org> on behalf of Joe Kosack via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:59:06 PM
To: FSPA main discussion list
Cc: Joe Kosack
Subject: Re: [FSPA] playoff qualifiers

Paul, the 28 player situation was the hardest scenario that we had to work with.  The optimal thing to do for our goal of bringing close to half the players into the playoffs would actually be to keep it at three divisions and have playoff spots, but that gets us right back into having a two round playoff that might last longer than the location is willing to stay open for.

I know when we were having the last discussion, I was looking at playoffs through the framework of getting around half per division, rounded down.  So at 28 players, we would split in 4 divisions of 7.  Half of the players would be 3.5, rounded down to 3 per division.  Once we get to 29 players, then A division get the extra player and goes to 8 players.  Half would be 4 spots.  For ease for the SLO and for the benefit of everyone, we made the call that the number of qualifiers would be half of the largest division, rounded down.  Hence where we got to the current slotting for playoff spots.

Any suggestions to improve things are always appreciated!

Joe K.

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From: FSPA <fspa-bounces at fspazone.org> on behalf of Paul Liam McGlone via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 11:40:27 PM
To: FSPA main discussion list
Cc: Paul Liam McGlone
Subject: Re: [FSPA] playoff qualifiers

Thank you for starting a new subject/thread.   I didn’t want to toss this on the “some bullies play at VBH” thread.

So, here is something I had put together when the subject of “only 3 players out of each 7-player division, in a 28 player league”

=============.  Below is analysis of the rules applied to X players in X divisions, and how many players are put into the playoffs, per the “ Long Rules”<http://fspazone.org/complete-rules/>  ….
============

There has been some discussion about why we had 3 players in each division instead of 4, at RedZone following this Summer season.

The rules and software do call for this, for a 28 player league, but we were trying to figure out why.

Looking at the chart, it looks like 28 players is the ONLY size that would have 3 player “finals" for leagues with 22 to 36 players.

This is from the Rules, with the percentages added in Red.

22-27   n/a     A-4, B-4, C-4

44.44% to 54.54%

28

        n/a     A-3, B-3, C-3, D-3
42.86%
(16 out of 28 players would be 57.14%)
29-36

        n/a     A-4, B-4, C-4, D-4
44.44% to 55.17%
So, it appears that, not only is the 16 player case the only case out of these 15 cases which only have 3 players in a group for finals, but it is also the lowest percentage of players, falling outside the mimimm possible percentages

There were two changes to the rules that made this happen.   This started as an effort to reduce the need for semi-final rounds, so that we could get out of the facility before they wanted to close:

First in 6/13, there was one change which made this 3-qualifier format for 28-29 players.

Then, in 2/15, they changed it to give 4 player playoffs to the 29-player leagues, so that there wouldn’t be an 8-player division with only 3 qualifiers.
June 2013

  *   [8.2<http://www.fspazone.org/complete-rules/#8.2>] Changed division breakouts to avoid semi-finals as long as possible: 28-29 players are now 4 divisions/3 qualifiers each, and 30-36 players are now 4 divisions/4 qualifiers each. (05/07/14)

February 2015

  *   [4.6<http://www.fspazone.org/complete-rules/#4.6>] When restarting a game that had the wrong number of players, giving all players the option of keeping their first ball from the original game, or doing a complete replay. (01/07/15)
  *   [8.2<http://www.fspazone.org/complete-rules/#8.2>] Bumped 29 player leagues to have 4 divisions with 4 qualifiers each, to avoid having A division with 8 players and only 3 playoff slots. (01/07/15)

Paul Liam McGlone
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On Sep 21, 2017, at 7:06 PM, Joe Kosack via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa at fspazone.org>> wrote:

You only get to 5 person playoffs when there are 37 or more players in a league.  If we get to 37 players in a league for a season, we're doing a really good job. 😊

There comes a point where you need to cap the number of divisions, because running playoffs when there are three divisions can be hard enough, let alone four or five divisions playing at the same time.  When we last revised the number of qualifiers, the numbers were based on roughly half of the players making it.  If the largest division had 7 or less players, 3 players make playoffs.  If the largest division had 8 or 9 players, 4 players make playoffs.  If a division had 10 players, we made a new division up until we had four divisions.  At that point, we tapered off division growth in favor keeping it simpler for the SLOs that are running the league.  Currently, a fifth division doesn't come into play until there are 45 players, but a fourth division starts at 28 players.

Hope this helps!  :)

Joe K.

________________________________
From: FSPA <fspa-bounces at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa-bounces at fspazone.org>> on behalf of Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa at fspazone.org>>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:57:38 PM
To: FSPA main discussion list
Cc: Dave Hubbard
Subject: Re: [FSPA] playoff qualifiers

I'd support that.  5-person playoffs takes forever.  Capping it at 4 seems sensible, 3 for smaller leagues.

      --- Dave

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Daniel Cotter via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa at fspazone.org>> wrote:
Since a call for rule mods and suggested changes has been opened I'll restate mine. I know how many people make the playoffs is a calculation. But it seems the preferred number of players is 4. 5 or more is a pain really small leagues might call for 3 but still 4 seems to be preferred. So i suggest make 4 the cut.

Daniel

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From: FSPA <fspa-bounces+gotta_fixit=hotmail.com at fspazone.org<mailto:hotmail.com at fspazone.org>> on behalf of Joe Schober via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa at fspazone.org>>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 5:45:46 PM
To: FSPA main discussion list
Cc: Joe Schober
Subject: Re: [FSPA] Preplays VUK

Several folks have pretty well covered the rules and intentions here.

Preplays are meant to replicate the conditions of normal league play as much as reasonably practicable.  For example, this is a large part of the reason we require preplays to be done with another person: multi-player games can be very different from single-player games as far as maintaining (or not) your rhythm on a game, jackpot-stealing / lock-stealing and similar features on some games, etc.

One key rule of normal league play -- too obvious to be explicitly written, though alluded to in rule 5 -- is "no mulligans".  You get exactly one try at each game, and you record whatever score you get, good or bad.  (There are rare exceptions related to Interference or Malfunction rulings.)  The same is true of preplays: per rule 9, you explicitly state when you start a game that this is a preplay, and then the result of that game is recorded as your preplay.  You don't get to play a game several times until you get a score you like, and then retroactively claim that as your preplay.  The same rule specifically notes that any preplays in progress at league start time are stopped, and the score shown is recorded as your preplay score.  Doing otherwise would allow for mulligans (Dave H provided some great examples), which wouldn't be fair.  So do not start a preplay before league if you don't think there's a reasonable chance you can finish it by scheduled league start time.

For after-league play (whether preplays or just for fun), there's no specific rule, but the Golden Rule is always a good guide... check to see if any groups still need to play the game you're about to start.  I'd be somewhat reluctant to add a rule that blocks all preplays just because one group is having an epic game 4, but we can take that under consideration per Dave's request.

I encourage everyone to review the full rules at <http://www.fspazone.org/complete-rules/>, especially if you have insomnia.  They're long and cover lots of things that aren't really a factor 99% of the time.  But every rule was created for a specific reason, and many of them have been fine-tuned several times, based on what 22 years of experience says works best for the most people most of the time.  Don't hesitate to ask your league officers, or here on the mailing list, if you have any questions about them.  We also accept suggestions for rule additions or modifications; this feedback will be reviewed and (loudly) debated by all league officers between seasons, and voted on.

Thanks!

--Joe

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