[FSPA] previously unknown pinball technique discovered?

Fri Sep 7 07:04:20 EDT 2018

if it becomes a problem, it'd be pretty easy to rig up a vertical slam tilt
to stop people doing this.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:56 AM Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
wrote:

> if you try it instead of speculating you will understand how universally
> effective this is. I've been doing this for months.
>
> Maybe I shouldn't have been so eager to share... Lots of naysaying and
> negativity based on no experimentatiom after watching a hastily recorded
> video
>  You must love waiting minutes for a bobber to stop in the middle of a ball
>
> Feel free to try it, or not. I'll enjoy not having to either shut down my
> flow or stop nudging for minutes after a big save.
>
> /shrug
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018, 12:44 AM steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Games have variations... without good sampling you're blind.  I didn't
>> say it won't work.. I said you're going blind.  So you don't know if you
>> are being effective or not, for how long, etc.
>>
>> Don't worry... I'm not going to challenge your 'world first' with another
>> world first.  I feel confident enough in my engineering education.  But if
>> I find a convenient shaker... I'll give the world the first power assisted
>> tilt stopper.
>>
>> On Friday, September 7, 2018, 12:37:26 AM EDT, Steve Peck <
>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> so it definitely works no matter how you hit it, but without seeing the
>> bobber there's no way the technique can be known to work? Which is it?
>>
>> I'll look forward to your video stopping a bobber in 15 seconds hitting
>> the side of the cab instead. And somehow being preferable as far as
>> noise/disruption.
>>
>> On Sep 7, 2018 12:31 AM, "steve" <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >1a - you sure the direction of the vibrations is irrelevant? you did
>> the maths?
>>
>> Because I know you aren't getting any vertical movement...  you are
>> banging a solid cabinet with solid legs into a solid floor.  You are not
>> getting vertical displacement unless you are bending the legs, or bouncing
>> off the floor.  So the fact you are hitting downward... is irrelevant.
>>
>> Banging the cabinet simply causing it to vibrate... in nearly all
>> directions chaotically.  And the effect works because of the rattling of
>> the tilt hanger and tilt rod creating all kinds of extra movements and
>> contacts... that work to disrupt the pivot contact and introduces rattle at
>> the contact which kills the stable pendulum mount.
>>
>> Take a newton's craddle toy and vibrate the table it's on.. you'll find
>> it's very ineffective and dies off quickly.  Or as everyone who ever skated
>> as a kid knows...  spin a worn out bearing and find it spins less
>> efficiently than one with tighter tolerances.
>>
>> It doesn't have to do with the direction of movement, but the lack of
>> steady contact combined with vibration leads to chaotic movement that kills
>> the kinetic energy of the pendulum.  Which is why I said a dildo attached
>> to the cabinet would do effectively the same thing.  You just need enough
>> amplitude in the waves to disrupt the tilt contact point.  And since it's
>> just hanging there by gravity with nothing holding them tightly together..
>> it's easy to do.
>>
>> Signed...
>> Science
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 11:37:59 PM EDT, Steve Peck <
>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 1a - you sure the direction of the vibrations is irrelevant? you did the
>> maths? cause i'd bet doing this along the plane which the bobber swings has
>> the potential to increase or decrease the swing
>> 1b - my hits are going through the vertical 'spine' of the side rails.
>> this isnt handling them off the game. they dont flex when doing this and
>> the glass isn't really even moving
>>
>> 2 - i figured this out before ever confirming by looking. it works every
>> time. pretty easy to tell - double danger, do this, have confidence to do a
>> slap save less than 30s later. if you tried it you would know how reliable
>> it is instead of speculating
>>
>> 3 - how is it so disruptive? it can be done in normal play space and
>> isn't that loud.
>>
>> and for Joe - if it hurts, you're doing it too hard and/or with the wrong
>> part of your hand. really i recommend the heel of the palm and the
>> speed/force of an enthusiastic clap or so.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:27 PM, steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> 1a - The downward movement isn't the key.  It's the vibrations.  Its why
>> you hit fast, not slow and big
>> 1b - The side rails are thin and often poorly supported behind depending
>> on the fit of the trim and glass.  If you've ever handled them off a game,
>> you'd see how easy it is to bend or crease them.
>>
>> 2 - Hindsight is 20/20...  aka when you can confirm it by peeking
>>
>> 3 - My comment isn't purely about the noise.  Plus, with games with
>> looser glass, it will be an bigger issue.
>>
>> Go get something like a feedback motor... or d-cell battery operated toy
>> you'd find in a sex shop... and hold it against the cabinet.  I bet you
>> find the same result as long as the motor shakes enough for the energy to
>> get to the tilt mount.  Play with the speeds... and you'll see how quickly
>> you can kill the movement.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 11:20:03 PM EDT, Steve Peck <
>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 1 - how are you going to hit straight down through the side of the
>> cabinet while hitting wood? how are you going to dent a side rail with the
>> fleshy side of your fist or your palm?
>>
>> 2 - it works. Well.
>>
>> 3 - maybe, but again the video makes it seem much louder than it really
>> is in person. since a fleshy part of the hand is used it's a fairly
>> dull/low thudding.
>>
>> regardless of how sustained this is you're never, ever going to hurt a
>> machine doing it. i really doubt a bare hand could do anything to a side
>> rail even if you're trying but the technique doesnt require that much force
>> - it's all about inducing vibration on the axis that runs vertically
>> through the bobber.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:01 PM, steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is a solution that is far worse than the actual problem
>>
>> 1 - Hitting the rail is completely unnecessary when you could have just
>> hit the wood cabinet and avoided the risk of denting the side rails
>> 2 - In practice you can't tell if its working or not... so you can go
>> banging along blindly
>> 3 - It's very disruptive to people around you
>>
>> While it may be less force than nudging... you don't nudge for 10-30
>> seconds consequently.
>>
>> I wouldn't recommend you do this as a practice.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 10:50:48 PM EDT, Steve Peck via FSPA <
>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> oh it's also not as loud in person as it seems in the video
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:47 PM Steve Peck <speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> it doesn't take that much force. Certainly less than standard nudging and
>> not in a way that could ever hurt a machine.
>>
>> You bet I'm doing this for 15 seconds in comp rather than waiting 3 min
>> for a bobber to stop and I doubt there's any rule against such a thing.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:44 PM eric schoch via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> If someone complains at a tournament you tell them to “STFU i am playing
>> pinball.  Do some research!”
>>
>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 9:59:24 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <
>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So... basically you're beating on the cabinet instead of just waiting for
>> the tilt bob to slow down on its own.  Two comments:
>>
>> 1) If I ever saw you do this to one of my pins, that would be the last
>> time you play it.
>> 2) If you were doing this next to me in a tournament, a TD is getting
>> called for interference.
>>
>> Sure, it works, but it's just about the most annoying "technique" I can
>> think of.
>>
>> Flame away.
>>
>>      --- Dave
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Roy via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=_slFooZkmpw&feature=youtu.be
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_slFooZkmpw&feature=youtu.be>
>>
>>
>> On 9/6/2018 9:36 PM, Colin Horner via FSPA wrote:
>>
>> Is there anything that would convince you to "give up" that pursuit?
>>
>> Josh Jurgensen via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>
>> If this 'video proof' turns out to just be a Rick astley clip, I'm going
>> to run the risk of getting expelled from all FSPA activities just to slam
>> tilt any machine you're playing.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 7:56 PM Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> sounds like it really is a new discovery. i'll make a video when i can.
>>
>> it's a bare handed nudging technique that should work on any machine
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Brian Newhard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Rare earth magnet on the bottom of the cabinet?
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I might have discovered a previously unknown pinball technique. Not sure
>> what to do with the info.
>>
>> I need to make a video to demonstrate, but first thing is I want to make
>> sure it's not already known
>>
>> so does anyone know of a way to reliably, consistently, and quickly stop
>> a tilt bobber swinging from normal playing conditions outside the cabinet?
>>
>> -Steve
>>
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