[FSPA] Preplays are better

Tue Jun 29 22:32:08 EDT 2021

Without fully understanding what’s “in your head” I think this introduces
the “julies rule” problem :)

To be more specific good players that game the system to drop down to lower
groups to rack points up.

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:30 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
wrote:

> I'd think they get the same zero points as if they just forfeited.  To be
> clear, this idea doesn't include preplays either - live play only.  In the
> system I'm imagining in my head, they just don't exist for that week and
> their ladder position is adjusted to be whatever it ends up being (formula
> TBD, but maybe off the top of my head, no-show = previous ladder position
> minus 2 spots).
>
> In a system like that, you don't need to drop people from the league after
> X weeks either.  If someone quits, they just drop to the bottom collecting
> zeros and no one cares.  You can still do the drop-2 idea to help smooth
> things for those that can't be there every week.
>
>
>        --- Dave
>
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:18 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
> wrote:
>
>> How does that affect the person that didn't make it to league that night?
>> Do they just not get any points if everyone else is being paired up around
>> them?
>>
>> On June 29, 2021 10:04:16 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <
>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Preplays might be better, but that's just choosing the best of two bad
>>> options. No one likes playing against mystery scores where you have no idea
>>> how the game was set up or whether they played by the rules (multiple extra
>>> balls?) or whether it's just a made up score. And you're still playing by
>>> yourself if everyone else in your group doesn't show up, so you haven't
>>> solved that problem.
>>>
>>> The issue isn't preplays vs. drop-2, it's the fixed groups. If we had a
>>> system where players checked in before league then we just peel them off in
>>> groups of 3 or 4, the "number of people in the group" problem disappears.
>>>
>>> You'd need a different laddering system, but surely that's solveable.
>>>
>>> --- Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 9:52 PM Matt Wycoff via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It’s a trade off, you can force four player groups in the software but
>>>> with “many” groups you can run into game backlogs especially with top heavy
>>>> leagues like many of us have.  (Good players).
>>>>
>>>> To compensate for this, if there are enough location games you can have
>>>> more 3 player groups but you do run the risk of a 1 person group from time
>>>> to time.
>>>>
>>>> -Matt
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:48 PM Stephen Jonke via FSPA <
>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That’s how it should have been handled by the rules, but the question
>>>>> is do 1 player groups happen more often with the drop 2 worst weeks rule?
>>>>> Maybe. It will be interesting to see what happens in the last 2 weeks, and
>>>>> especially last week.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, 9:36 PM -0400, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <
>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org>, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you mean “reorganized” groups?  You can combine people into
>>>>> groups for socially competitive purposes but the rules clearly state..
>>>>>
>>>>> “ If only one player in a group is present and eligible to play (or
>>>>> has preplay scores for) a game, that player earns a win by forfeit and
>>>>> receives three (3) game points. That player still plays the game and his
>>>>> score will be recorded for statistical purposes.”
>>>>>
>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:28 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <
>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And that makes it tough for those of us that don't have set schedules
>>>>>> at work and can potentially get stuck at any moment. In my case I always
>>>>>> try my best to send a notice but it can be easy to get caught up trying to
>>>>>> make it in time that you totally miss what time it actually is. Whether it
>>>>>> actually *is* any better or not, I felt a lot less stressed knowing I had
>>>>>> preplays on standby just in case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For various reasons I feel a lot better when there is a backup set of
>>>>>> preplays that can be used in this situation. At the very least there needs
>>>>>> to be clear expectations of what the limits are if we stick with the no
>>>>>> prepay/drop two rule but for me personally the undated preplay system
>>>>>> worked well and if we were taking a poll that would be my preference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On June 29, 2021 9:12:34 PM EDT, Deb Kapke via FSPA <
>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I feel like if we have a drop-2 rule then we also need a
>>>>>>> let-a-league-officer-know-you-won’t-be-here rule.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It can be mission critical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Kevin Stone via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I thought dropping 2 scores would be better than preplays, but it is
>>>>>>> absolutely not. We would have had two 1 actual player groups tonight in
>>>>>>> first and last group,  but adjusted groups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 player groups SUCK.  You can crush a game and still get 1 point
>>>>>>> for 2nd place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can figure this shit out,  I'm impressed. Edan and I got it
>>>>>>> re-organized but it was a pain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [image: Image]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------- This
>>>>>>> email was processed through Xeams to filter junk messages. If you feel this
>>>>>>> message has been tagged incorrectly, you can change its category by
>>>>>>> clicking the link below. Click here to mark email as junk
>>>>>>> <https://larry.iad.ransomtech.com:5273/FrontController?operation=mbeu&f=00001_-1013_20210629_5394406.eml&chkBayesian=1&pr=1&mt=1&ma=s>.
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------- This email
>>> was processed through Xeams to filter junk messages. If you feel this
>>> message has been tagged incorrectly, you can change its category by
>>> clicking the link below. Click here to mark email as junk
>>> <https://larry.iad.ransomtech.com:5273/FrontController?operation=mbeu&f=00001_-847_20210629_5394519.eml&chkBayesian=1&pr=1&mt=1&ma=s>.
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> _______________________________________________
>> FSPA mailing list
>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>
> _______________________________________________
> FSPA mailing list
> FSPA at fspazone.org
> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fspazone.org/pipermail/fspa/attachments/20210629/45eeb07c/attachment.htm>