[FSPA] League questions - player opinions wanted

Sun May 12 12:23:24 EDT 2024

I've been playing in the league for 5 years (at least until Spinners
closed..) and to be honest, I have no idea what a WPPR is..

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 12:15 PM Dan Reynolds via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
wrote:

>
> It shouldn’t be surprising that people who don’t even play in the league
> anymore don’t care about WPPRs.
>
> On May 12, 2024, at 9:45 AM, Stephen Jonke via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
> wrote:
>
> 
> As I said before, I’m absolutely in favor of dropping WPPRs and then doing
> what’s fun instead of what complies. On top of that, let’s just say that
> the FSPA shrinks as a result. Is that so bad? Suddenly house parties become
> an option again in that case. Though I suspect dropping WPPRs will not
> cause a mass exodus.
>
> For me an issue is we no longer have a league in Maryland. I can’t drive
> to the VA locations every week. Or rather I could, but all that driving is
> not great. Don’t know what can be done about that.
>
> Steve
> On May 11, 2024 at 2:09 PM -0400, Barry Schwartz via FSPA <
> fspa at fspazone.org>, wrote:
>
> Party-I love a good pinball party and especially love reconnecting with
> old FSPA friends.  I also appreciate party games and the surrounding
> friendly competition and they motivate me to attend.  However, I
> generally am unwilling to travel an hour or more just for a party and
> frankly, pizza demotivates me.  So, I have only attended sparsely in the
> past few years.
>
>
> Competition format-I don’t care much about WPPRs as I don’t play enough
> events in a year nor am I good enough to be top rated.  I started playing
> in FSPA and would happily continue without them.  I’m in it for the
> balanced but friendly competition and camaraderie it brings.  I’ve
> developed many friendships through league affiliation.  The competition
> is also important to my experience as it excites me in a way that little
> else does.  That’s why I participate in occasional tournaments.  But,
> it’s immediate and local vs IFPAs state and world levels.  So, I vote for
> the FSPA to focus on balanced friendly competition and frankly think too
> much attention is paid to WPPRs in the pinball community.  The IFPA
> exists for the top 1%, not for me.
>
>
> Barry
>
> On May 11, 2024, at 11:57 AM, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
> wrote:
>
> 
> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:08 AM Sergio Johnson via FSPA <
> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>
>> Calling the party contribution a “tax” is a bit unfair lol. It’s an
>> association benefit that some folks choose not to take advantage of but
>> that others like. The reality is that everyone subsidizes something else in
>> the league that may not be for them, but someone else takes advantage of.
>>
>
> Well, call it whatever you want, it's a part of dues that I'm essentially
> just setting on fire.  I am FAR from alone on this.  By your own admission,
> the party isn't self-sustaining and depends on significant no-shows to even
> happen.  Is that healthy?  It's probably getting worse with the rising cost
> of everything, and I assume that raising dues just to cover increased party
> costs is a non-starter (at least I hope it is).  All I'm asking is to
> really rethink whether it's worth it, and offer an opt-out for those that
> have no interest.  There's a way to find out for sure:  do a survey, poll
> the playerbase, ask if people would rather pay $40/season with party, or
> $30/season and no party.  Let's gather some data.
>
>
>> There are players who have never made the playoffs or very rarely do, yet
>> there they are, season after season contributing to the prize pool that
>> frequently goes to the same subset of players at the top end. They’re
>> subsidizing the prize fund. Some folks really don’t want to own a pinball
>> machine, (I know, go figure!), but get entered into the drawing anyway. The
>> party isn’t any different, and clearly $10 a head isn’t covering the costs
>> of it. When we came up with the cost years ago it was with the assumption
>> that not all would likely attend. I guess we could go to a “a la carte”
>> system for all of it but it would be an administrative headache trying to
>> keep track of who is “in” for prizes, party and giveaway. That said, we
>> could make all of those optional and really get bare bones with it.
>> Something to think about. Does the size of the prize pool or trophies
>> matter to folks?
>>
>
> This is disingenuous.  FSPA's playoff structure has always included a
> multitude of divisions such that even the worst players in the league can
> have a legitimate shot at their division playoffs, and therefore win
> something.  It's not just bad players subsidizing "the top end."  No one is
> asking for opt-in (or opt-out) to the prize pool, which wouldn't make any
> sense.  I don't think anyone is asking for an opt-out for the giveaway
> machine, it's essentially just a raffle.
>
> To your last question, the size of the prize pool doesn't entirely matter
> to me, as long as it's something.  Trophies do not matter.
>
>
>> The private feedback that I’ve gotten so far is that folks really hate
>> the wide disparities in skill levels seen in the early weeks of the new
>> system. It was not a fun experience for them. Unfortunately that’s the cost
>> of doing business with the IFPA. If anyone has any additional feedback on
>> that or other topics, I’d love to hear it!
>>
>
> Just a feeling... but it might be time to decide whether FSPA wants to be
> a competitive thing or a casual thing.  I know the party line in the past
> was trying to strike some sort of balance, but if people really hate the
> result of kowtowing to IFPA in an attempt to keep points, maybe it's time
> to pick a side.  Believe it or not, I actually think you should lean into
> the casual side.  Competitive players who care about points will continue
> to go to tournaments.  FSPA can exist for the more casual/social side, and
> without having to worry about the IFPA, you can go back to the ladder
> system and/or do whatever you want.
>
>        --- Dave
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