<html><head></head><body>Ocelot v0.3B<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On June 29, 2021 10:41:48 PM EDT, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="auto">I need an FSPA “dev” environment.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:41 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Perhaps, but I think prior discussions on this were mostly theoretical, no? Or is there decent evidence that people actually try to do this with successful results?</div><div><br></div><div>If someone wants to burn their drop-2 weeks in the _hope_ that they never have a bad week and need one, let 'em try.</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div> --- Dave<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:32 PM Matt Wycoff <<a href="mailto:mwycoff@gmail.com" target="_blank">mwycoff@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Without fully understanding what’s “in your head” I think this introduces the “julies rule” problem :)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">To be more specific good players that game the system to drop down to lower groups to rack points up.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:30 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I'd think they get the same zero points as if they just forfeited. To be clear, this idea doesn't include preplays either - live play only. In the system I'm imagining in my head, they just don't exist for that week and their ladder position is adjusted to be whatever it ends up being (formula TBD, but maybe off the top of my head, no-show = previous ladder position minus 2 spots).<br></div><div><br></div><div>In a system like that, you don't need to drop people from the league after X weeks either. If someone quits, they just drop to the bottom collecting zeros and no one cares. You can still do the drop-2 idea to help smooth things for those that can't be there every week.</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> --- Dave<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:18 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>How does that affect the person that didn't make it to league that night? Do they just not get any points if everyone else is being paired up around them?<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On June 29, 2021 10:04:16 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Preplays might be better, but that's just choosing the best of two bad options. No one likes playing against mystery scores where you have no idea how the game was set up or whether they played by the rules (multiple extra balls?) or whether it's just a made up score. And you're still playing by yourself if everyone else in your group doesn't show up, so you haven't solved that problem.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The issue isn't preplays vs. drop-2, it's the fixed groups. If we had a system where players checked in before league then we just peel them off in groups of 3 or 4, the "number of people in the group" problem disappears.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You'd need a different laddering system, but surely that's solveable.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">--- Dave</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 9:52 PM Matt Wycoff via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">It’s a trade off, you can force four player groups in the software but with “many” groups you can run into game backlogs especially with top heavy leagues like many of us have. (Good players).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">To compensate for this, if there are enough location games you can have more 3 player groups but you do run the risk of a 1 person group from time to time.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-Matt</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:48 PM Stephen Jonke via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div dir="auto">That’s how it should have been handled by the rules, but the question is do 1 player groups happen more often with the drop 2 worst weeks rule? Maybe. It will be interesting to see what happens in the last 2 weeks, and especially last week.</div>
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Steve</div></div><div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On Jun 29, 2021, 9:36 PM -0400, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left:thin solid grey;margin:5px;padding-left:10px">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto" style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)">What do you mean “reorganized” groups? You can combine people into groups for socially competitive purposes but the rules clearly state..</div>
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<div dir="auto" style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)">“<span style="font-family:"Libre Franklin","Helvetica Neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px;border-color:rgb(31,50,71);color:rgb(31,50,71)"> If only one player </span><span style="font-family:"Libre Franklin","Helvetica Neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px;border-color:rgb(31,50,71);color:rgb(31,50,71)">in a group is present and eligible to play (or has preplay scores for) a game, that player earns a win by forfeit and receives three (3) game points. That player still plays the game and his score will be recorded for statistical purposes.”</span></div>
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<div dir="auto" style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:"Libre Franklin","Helvetica Neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:15px;border-color:rgb(31,50,71);color:rgb(31,50,71)">-Matt</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:28 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">And that makes it tough for those of us that don't have set schedules at work and can potentially get stuck at any moment. In my case I always try my best to send a notice but it can be easy to get caught up trying to make it in time that you totally miss what time it actually is. Whether it actually *is* any better or not, I felt a lot less stressed knowing I had preplays on standby just in case.<br>
<br>
For various reasons I feel a lot better when there is a backup set of preplays that can be used in this situation. At the very least there needs to be clear expectations of what the limits are if we stick with the no prepay/drop two rule but for me personally the undated preplay system worked well and if we were taking a poll that would be my preference.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On June 29, 2021 9:12:34 PM EDT, Deb Kapke via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yeah.
<div><br></div>
<div>I feel like if we have a drop-2 rule then we also need a let-a-league-officer-know-you-won’t-be-here rule.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>It can be mission critical.</div>
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<blockquote type="cite"><br>
On Jun 29, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Kevin Stone via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)" dir="auto">I thought dropping 2 scores would be better than preplays, but it is absolutely not. We would have had two 1 actual player groups tonight in first and last group, but adjusted groups.
<div id="m_8037340053167012995gmail-m_4383679431381747136m_-449976412243621126gmail-m_886412773924451394m_1529735470326947406m_-2147972843128040491m_4897776203435088987br-id-59bcec42-3192-466b-9dbe-56e405311e1e" dir="auto"><br></div>
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<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)" dir="auto">2 player groups SUCK. You can crush a game and still get 1 point for 2nd place. </div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)" dir="auto"><br></div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)" dir="auto">If you can figure this shit out, I'm impressed. Edan and I got it re-organized but it was a pain. </div>
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<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)" dir="auto"><img id="m_8037340053167012995gmail-m_4383679431381747136m_-449976412243621126gmail-m_886412773924451394m_1529735470326947406m_-2147972843128040491m_4897776203435088987def3d7bc-5472-48f0-8d4c-487567bde03a" alt="Image" style="max-width:100%">
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