<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I’ve helped admin and play in a few seasons now. Moving to the drop 2 instead of preplays has a couple of great positives in my opinion. <div><br></div><div>Keeping track of preplays really gets tough sometimes both as admin and a player. </div><div><br></div><div>The second is if a location has a lot of games and wants to add a game or remove one, they can do that almost on the fly since there’s no longer the need to account for the pre-plays. This is nice if a couple games have issues leading up to league night it’s easy to make that substitution. </div><div><br></div><div>I know that doesn’t fix the issues described in this thread but if those can be addressed in some way I think this format works well. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 30, 2021, at 9:04 AM, frederick butts via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">This may be the unpopular opinion, but why not eliminate the group structure and go with a random grouping and allow the group members to each choose the game that is played. <div><br></div><div>Set up random group once people check in.</div><div><br></div><div>Lowest ranking goes first and picks first game. Then next lowest… etc. if less than four players, the person with the lowest score total from the meet picks the last game. </div><div><br></div><div>If the worry is the good players picking on the less skilled players then create your random groupings by dividing the player list in half or thirds… top half broken into groups and bottom same thing.</div><div><br></div><div>This is the basic premise for how we played in New England when I was up there.<br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 30, 2021, at 8:48 AM, Josh Jurgensen via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto">What about having at least one person per league night who attends but don't compete? (I'm thinking like a hall monitor or school crossing guard or the attendant in the arcade or something.) These folks could be minimally trained in machine maintenance and rules to help with the easier issues - and they would just guest in whichever group happened to need it. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Maybe these folks wouldn't have to pay season league fees or some other incentive - but it might provide a pathway for newer enthusiasts who don't own any machines yet to feel a deeper sense of community. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It would also smooth out at least one small group per week. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:28 AM Deb Kapke via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>I like the idea of Drop-2 because:</div><div><br></div><div>1) There are a lot of machines at some locations. Preplays get time consuming when there are a ton of machines. (It’s GREAT to have a lot of machines unless there are a bunch of Popeyes or when trying to do preplays.)</div><div><br></div><div>2) Some of our current league locations don’t stay open late. So while it was easy to stay after league someplace like Carpool, it’s not possible now. Ocelot and Mustang Sally, are closed by the time league is over (or even before league is over). And getting there early to do preplays isn’t an option for many because of work and traffic. So preplays require a separate trip, possibly multiple trips.</div><div><br></div><div>If Drop-2 stays around then maybe there can be some adjustments. </div><div><br></div><div>It is, of course, a courtesy to tell a league officer when a person won’t be there. But maybe a little more emphasis on letting somebody know. At some point a person knows they're not on their way, so they won’t be there. I would imagine that even a half hour notice is helpful. </div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 30, 2021, at 3:17 AM, Joe P. Said via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="auto">What Pittsburgh does is generates the groups from the players that are present. We should aim to adapt the rules to that if we want the drop 2 to be successful.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 11:46 PM Daniel Cotter via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
Daniel Cotter here, miss you guys. I have been running a couple seasons of a social distance league at the Richmond Pinball Collective that was basically a preplay league. You had the set week to come in while the collective was open and play a set bank of
games (solo if you wanted to avoid human contract) and submit your scores, but no actual preplays, if you missed a week you forfeited. My intent was not to remove anyone based on forfeits and everyone would make the finals, so forfei<span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">ts
equaled less points and lower seeding for finals. The aim was just fun and to have some reason to play each week during the pandemic. The first season I did 3 player(or default) groups and didn't like that those forfeits caused to many two player match ups
as I felt it skewed the points a bit if it happened to frequently. The second season I went for 4 player groups and this greatly cut down on 2 player match ups and I feel was a good offset for not dealing with preplays. I know this summer season was a kind
of fun test the waters so I wanted to share my experience with something similar.</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Daniel</span></div>
<div>
<div id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b> FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa-bounces@fspazone.org" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa-bounces@fspazone.org</a>> on behalf of steve via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa@fspazone.org</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 30, 2021 3:01 AM<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> FSPA main discussion list <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa@fspazone.org</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> steve <<a href="mailto:flynnibus@yahoo.com" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">flynnibus@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [FSPA] Preplays are better</font>
<div> </div>
</div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">Option 1: Prioritize 4 player grouping to minimize risk of 1 player groups. Consequence, everyone plays in 4 player groups, in preparing to avoid the potential of someone not being there.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">(this was actually my pre-season recommendation - but the hate for 4 player groups was too strong)</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">Option 2: Stick to the 'default' grouping which prefers 3 player groups, and face risks of 2 and 1 player groups more frequently. Rules account for all the scenarios, so you can just 'play on' w/o extra intervention. Consequence... you have
2 and 1 player scoring more frequently.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">As Matt mentioned, we have discussed and are sticking with #2 with the modification we will have the single player play with the group below them if there is space (or above) so they can play in a group - but we will still score them as their
independent groups.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">The other options are far more disruptive change and not for something mid-season. You either change the ladder and movement system, and in turn, the handicapping model used for the whole league, or you use ghost scores of some format.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">Personally I think 4 player groups are far less disruptive and provide 'cheap' defense to the problem.. but it seems everyone hates every scoring format but 3 player groups :D</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">-Steve</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405x_ydpe7b34129yahoo_quoted_5514455564">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">On Tuesday, June 29, 2021, 08:58:27 PM EDT, Kevin Stone via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405x_ydpe7b34129yiv9213381194" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)">I thought dropping 2 scores would be better than preplays, but it is absolutely not. We would have had two 1 actual player groups tonight in first and last group, but adjusted groups.
<div id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405x_ydpe7b34129yiv9213381194br-id-59bcec42-3192-466b-9dbe-56e405311e1e" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)">2 player groups SUCK. You can crush a game and still get 1 point for 2nd place. </div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)">If you can figure this shit out, I'm impressed. Edan and I got it re-organized but it was a pain. </div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33)"><img id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405x_ydpe7b34129yiv9213381194def3d7bc-5472-48f0-8d4c-487567bde03a" alt="Image" style="max-width:100%;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" data-unique-identifier="">
<div id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405x_ydpe7b34129yiv9213381194br-id-e68e8123-4aec-4b05-baf0-d1bfd5ddc4c1" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div id="m_-8669343971611151148m_-4850459611430583405x_ydpe7b34129yiv9213381194ms-outlook-mobile-signature" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
Get <a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">Outlook for Android</a></div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
FSPA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
FSPA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>FSPA mailing list<br><a href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>
FSPA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>FSPA mailing list</span><br><span>FSPA@fspazone.org</span><br><span>http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</span><br></div></blockquote></div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>FSPA mailing list</span><br><span>FSPA@fspazone.org</span><br><span>http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>