<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpbbc038c0yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">it's the fixed groups.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">There are no fixed groups. What is fixed is the ladder. Grouping is just conveniently done before league starts. You can always redraw the group boundaries before league starts. </span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">It just needs to be done before you do game picks or you face redoing everything. And this is the age old problem, you gotta have a defined time when you make the decision 'this is the groups we are using', so you can have the other actions take place. Rules are you gotta be there at start time, not game pick time. This is one of the catch-22s of organizing at the start of the night. You wouldn't want to penalize players to lose their game picks just because you shuffled the groups.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">I believe what you are talking about is instead ranking people present in some order that excludes people not present, and then forming groups. </span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">You can do that in what we have today, but it may not really be fair to players to be potentially moved around in their handicapping simply based on other players not being present.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">-Steve</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="ydp7d1a106byahoo_quoted_5502280862" class="ydp7d1a106byahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Tuesday, June 29, 2021, 10:07:14 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116"><div><div>Preplays might be better, but that's just choosing the best of two bad options. No one likes playing against mystery scores where you have no idea how the game was set up or whether they played by the rules (multiple extra balls?) or whether it's just a made up score. And you're still playing by yourself if everyone else in your group doesn't show up, so you haven't solved that problem.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>The issue isn't preplays vs. drop-2, it's the fixed groups. If we had a system where players checked in before league then we just peel them off in groups of 3 or 4, the "number of people in the group" problem disappears.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>You'd need a different laddering system, but surely that's solveable.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>--- Dave</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote"><div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116yqt2557464464" id="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116yqtfd06738"><div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 9:52 PM Matt Wycoff via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>It’s a trade off, you can force four player groups in the software but with “many” groups you can run into game backlogs especially with top heavy leagues like many of us have. (Good players).</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>To compensate for this, if there are enough location games you can have more 3 player groups but you do run the risk of a 1 person group from time to time.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-Matt</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote"><div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:48 PM Stephen Jonke via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<div>
<div>That’s how it should have been handled by the rules, but the question is do 1 player groups happen more often with the drop 2 worst weeks rule? Maybe. It will be interesting to see what happens in the last 2 weeks, and especially last week.</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
Steve</div></div><div>
<div>On Jun 29, 2021, 9:36 PM -0400, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>, wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-color:grey;border-left-width:thin;border-left-style:solid;margin:5px 5px;padding-left:10px;">
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">What do you mean “reorganized” groups? You can combine people into groups for socially competitive purposes but the rules clearly state..</div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><br clear="none"></div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">“<span style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:15px;border-color:rgb(31,50,71);color:rgb(31,50,71);"> If only one player </span><span style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:15px;border-color:rgb(31,50,71);color:rgb(31,50,71);">in a group is present and eligible to play (or has preplay scores for) a game, that player earns a win by forfeit and receives three (3) game points. That player still plays the game and his score will be recorded for statistical purposes.”</span></div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><span style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:15px;border-color:rgb(31,50,71);color:rgb(31,50,71);"><br clear="none"></span></div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><span style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:15px;border-color:rgb(31,50,71);color:rgb(31,50,71);">-Matt</span></div>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:15px;color:rgb(31,50,71);"><br clear="none"></span></div>
<div>
<div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote">
<div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:28 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div>
<blockquote class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);">
<div>And that makes it tough for those of us that don't have set schedules at work and can potentially get stuck at any moment. In my case I always try my best to send a notice but it can be easy to get caught up trying to make it in time that you totally miss what time it actually is. Whether it actually *is* any better or not, I felt a lot less stressed knowing I had preplays on standby just in case.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
For various reasons I feel a lot better when there is a backup set of preplays that can be used in this situation. At the very least there needs to be clear expectations of what the limits are if we stick with the no prepay/drop two rule but for me personally the undated preplay system worked well and if we were taking a poll that would be my preference.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote">On June 29, 2021 9:12:34 PM EDT, Deb Kapke via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:
<blockquote class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);">Yeah.
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>I feel like if we have a drop-2 rule then we also need a let-a-league-officer-know-you-won’t-be-here rule.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div>It can be mission critical.</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite"><br clear="none">
On Jun 29, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Kevin Stone via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33);">I thought dropping 2 scores would be better than preplays, but it is absolutely not. We would have had two 1 actual player groups tonight in first and last group, but adjusted groups.
<div id="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116m_1529735470326947406m_-2147972843128040491m_4897776203435088987br-id-59bcec42-3192-466b-9dbe-56e405311e1e"><br clear="none"></div>
</div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33);">2 player groups SUCK. You can crush a game and still get 1 point for 2nd place. </div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33);"><br clear="none"></div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33);">If you can figure this shit out, I'm impressed. Edan and I got it re-organized but it was a pain. </div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33);"><br clear="none"></div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(33,33,33);"><img id="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116m_1529735470326947406m_-2147972843128040491m_4897776203435088987def3d7bc-5472-48f0-8d4c-487567bde03a" alt="Image" style="max-width:100%;" data-inlineimagemanipulating="true" class="">
<div id="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116m_1529735470326947406m_-2147972843128040491m_4897776203435088987br-id-e68e8123-4aec-4b05-baf0-d1bfd5ddc4c1"><br clear="none"></div>
<br clear="none"></div>
<div id="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116m_1529735470326947406m_-2147972843128040491m_4897776203435088987ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br clear="none"></div>
Get <a shape="rect" href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Outlook for Android</a></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none">
<span>FSPA mailing list</span><br clear="none">
<span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a></span><br clear="none">
<span><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a></span><br clear="none"></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
------------------------------------------------------------- This email was processed through Xeams to filter junk messages. If you feel this message has been tagged incorrectly, you can change its category by clicking the link below. Click <a shape="rect" href="https://larry.iad.ransomtech.com:5273/FrontController?operation=mbeu&f=00001_-1013_20210629_5394406.eml&chkBayesian=1&pr=1&mt=1&ma=s" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here to mark email as junk</a>. -------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
--<br clear="none">
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
FSPA mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br clear="none"></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
FSPA mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br clear="none"></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
FSPA mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
FSPA mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div></div><div class="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116yqt2557464464" id="ydp7d1a106byiv1701816116yqtfd82485">
</div></div></div><div class="ydp7d1a106byqt2557464464" id="ydp7d1a106byqtfd57782">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">FSPA mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>