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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Jon, that's an interesting example... but I don't agree with the conclusion. It boils down to 6 weeks count... in your example player 3 did remarkably better in his scoring 6 weeks then the other player. Player 1 was steady, but not significant. Also your example is rather contrived as it doesn't align with how our scoring works... your points per week available is varying greatly (from 12-30 points).</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Yes there is an element of 'mulligans' when you drop lowest scores - but our motivation here is to be flexible to life - not that the model is trying to be the most accurate competitive wise. The idea it is a compromise is inherent to the very nature of the idea. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">People either</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">1- play</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">2- get a zero</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">3- get an artificial score of some sort</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">4- have their week not count</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">#3 is hard to do fairly and people would just argue the same kinds of artificial gain or loss no matter what you do. (see all the anger over effective points - and that's just movement!)</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">#2 is debilitating to a season and reason enough for people not to play if they can't ensure total participation. That is a hardline we are trying to balance around without sticking to</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">#1 can be preplays, but it has limits.. and in practice people are eager to find alternatives</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">#4 is a model that isn't perfect, but tries to strike a balance. Both participants and those that don't gain some advantage. You drop your lowest performances... that can be a 'mulligan' or it can be an absence. That's up to the player.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">-Steve</div><div><br></div>
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On Friday, September 3, 2021, 07:35:53 PM EDT, Jon Stephanou via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278"><div><div dir="ltr">This is why I don't like the two drop-two method, unless I misunderstood the rule. It can unfairly give a lesser player the advantage, once the two lowest scores are dropped. Below is an example of what I mean, the highlighted scores are the two lowest for each player. <div><table cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:x-small;"><colgroup span="1" width="67"></colgroup><colgroup span="3" width="85"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="94"></colgroup><colgroup span="9" width="85"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="65"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="55"></colgroup><tbody><tr><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="middle" height="17"><b></b></td></tr></tbody></table></div> Player-1 is the better player with more points and a higher average before the drop, but afterwards they're the worse. <div><br clear="none"></div><div>
<table cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:x-small;"><colgroup span="1" width="67"></colgroup><colgroup span="3" width="85"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="94"></colgroup><colgroup span="8" width="85"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="65"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="55"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="75"></colgroup><tbody><tr><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="middle" height="17"><b> </b></td><td align="center" colspan="14" rowspan="1" valign="middle" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Points by Meet</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1"><br clear="none"></td></tr><tr><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" height="17"><b>Player</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -1</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -2</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -3</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -4</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -5</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -6</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -7</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -8</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -9</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Meet -10</b></td><td align="left" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Total Points</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Average</b></td><td align="center" colspan="2" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>2 Lowest Scores</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>Adjusted</b></td></tr><tr><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" height="17"><font face="Liberation Serif">One</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" bgcolor="#FFFFA6"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" bgcolor="#FFFFA6"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>80</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">8</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">8</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">8</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>64</b></td></tr><tr><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" height="18"><font face="Liberation Serif">Two</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">9</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">7</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" bgcolor="#FFFFA6"><font face="Liberation Serif">4</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">10</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">6</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">12</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" bgcolor="#FFFFA6"><font face="Liberation Serif">0</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>72</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">7.2</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">4</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">0</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>68</b></td></tr><tr><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" height="18"><font face="Liberation Serif">Three</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">10</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">6</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" bgcolor="#FFFFA6"><font face="Liberation Serif">2</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">15</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">7</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">10</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);" bgcolor="#FFFFA6"><font face="Liberation Serif">4</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><font face="Liberation Serif">8</font></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>78</b></td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">7.8</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">2</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);">4</td><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>72</b></td></tr></tbody></table><div><table cellspacing="0" border="0" style="font-size:x-small;"><colgroup span="1" width="67"></colgroup><colgroup span="3" width="85"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="94"></colgroup><colgroup span="9" width="85"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="65"></colgroup><colgroup span="1" width="55"></colgroup><tbody><tr><td align="center" colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="middle" height="17"></td><td align="center" colspan="15" rowspan="1" valign="middle"><br clear="none"></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_quote"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278yqt4371370003" id="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278yqtfd76978"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 3:14 PM Joe P. Said via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div><blockquote class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278yqt4371370003" id="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278yqtfd44577"><div>Wei-Hwa, thats the ideal way to do it.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Also, people join league to play not to skip. The incentive is friends and social and competition, not to avoid being penalized. Drop-2 lowers stress which makes it more enjoyable but doesn’t remove any competition elements.</div><div><br clear="none"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_quote"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 9:31 PM Wei-Hwa Huang via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 2:47 PM frederick butts via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_quote"><blockquote class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div>I understand why FSPA uses groups, however I have played in leagues where the match ups were random. As in they were not set until everyone was there and we knew who was playing. <div>If making sure you keep the better players together for competition then keep groups but still make them random.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></blockquote><div>Over here in the Bay Area Pinball Association we don't create the groups until we know who has shown up, but they aren't random -- basically we sort everyone by how well they did last week and make groups based on that ordering.</div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_quote"><div> </div></div>-- <br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Wei-Hwa Huang, <a shape="rect" href="mailto:onigame@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">onigame@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">-----------------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">"Where are all the time travellers?" -- generalizing the Fermi Paradox to four dimensions</div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278gmail_signature" dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Thanks,<div>Jon</div></div></div><div class="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278yqt4371370003" id="ydpd993e1a1yiv4004572278yqtfd71160">
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