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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">I understand why FSPA uses groups, however I have played in leagues where the match ups were random. As in they were not set until everyone was there and we knew who was playing. </span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">If making sure you keep the better players together for competition then keep groups but still make them random.</span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Using random groups eliminates a key principle of the FSPA match play format - the ability for players of varying skill levels to compete with people of similar skill (comparatively). </span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">The reason you ARE NOT in a random group but a specific group of adjacent players is to allow players of different skill levels to compete and have their league points compared without extra modification. Players are ranked based on their performance. You play players adjacent you in this ranking. The grouping is the handicapping in the system. This way the points earned in Group 3 can be reasonably compared with the points earned in Group 1. The players in Group 1 played what should be harder competition matching their better ability, why the player in the lower group earns points against a group of peers... </span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Obviously this is idealized as player skill gradient is not perfect linear across a league - but the scheme works to function to allow people of different skill levels to play without fear of getting stomped the majority of the time by players that are radically better then themselves... or to prevent a top player from walking the whole season by cleaning up on far less experienced people.</span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">When you assemble groups by random - you effectively have one competition bracket - everyone is in the same pool. And it becomes less and less a fair competition when skill levels vary greatly.</span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Unless you divide people into different skill levels (Divisions) prior - random grouping will always be at odds with the fundamental concept of the handicapped scores. And doing that basically breaks you into 2-5 different leagues per location. Some may like that... but then you take on the whole drama-ball on how you determine limits on divisions, worth, etc. Historically, the FSPA leagues have rewarded all divisions and encouraged equality even though the skill varies.</span><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">(See the openness to how league prizes were picked, etc). That said, at Ocelot we didn't do 'equal' prize pools, but a 40/30/30 split.</span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">-Steve</span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div><br></div>
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On Wednesday, September 1, 2021, 05:47:36 PM EDT, frederick butts via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydp21268129yiv7669187147"><div>I understand why FSPA uses groups, however I have played in leagues where the match ups were random. As in they were not set until everyone was there and we knew who was playing. <div><br clear="none"></div><div>If making sure you keep the better players together for competition then keep groups but still make them random.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Another aspect we used was the lowest ranked person was first on the list and picked the game they wanted to play. Then number two… etc… if it was only a three person group then the person with the lowest point total through 3 games would pick the fourth. The player order went from 1-4 from the pervious game. I played in quite a few 1 player groups because the other two or three were not there and it was preplays. </div><div><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp21268129yiv7669187147yqt5118988491" id="ydp21268129yiv7669187147yqtfd56265"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 1, 2021, at 4:27 PM, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div><div class="ydp21268129yiv7669187147yqt5118988491" id="ydp21268129yiv7669187147yqtfd02822"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">For ocelot, we will plan to continue the Drop-2 format, without regrouping. We will work to make the tiebreakers and forfeits more clear, if rule changes are necessary (which I doubt) we will announce those to players at the league location and on the FSPA Web site. If you are planning on playing Ocelot this season (Sept 15th) and have questions or concerns, please contact me directly. <br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><div class="ydp21268129yiv7669187147gmail_quote"><div class="ydp21268129yiv7669187147gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 1:50 PM Deb Kapke via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydp21268129yiv7669187147gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div>Last season was summer.<div>Summer traditionally has more no-shows if I’m not mistaken.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Plus Covid. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>And crazy rainstorms. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>So I’m not sure this one small summer of leagues with a new rule provides data usable to assess attendance resulting from D2.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>(And I like D2 for locations with many machines, particularly if those locations have shorter hours.) </div><div><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 1, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Stephen Jonke via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
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<div>I’d be curious to know what long term affect drop 2 has on attendance. I’d guess it would be worse, but we’d have to see how it plays out long term. Last season were there more no-shows than usual?<br clear="none">
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On Sep 1, 2021, 12:25 PM -0400, Gregg Giblin via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>, wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left:thin solid rgb(26,188,156);margin:5px;padding-left:10px;">Adding my thoughts, having to pre-play 2 sets at a large location (MOM’S) is horrible.<br clear="none">
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<blockquote style="border-left:thin solid rgb(230,126,34);margin:5px;padding-left:10px;">On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:56 AM, Edward Most via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<span style="font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;">Just my two cents here, Having played 2 FSPA leagues last season and many many more prior I have to say that the last season was by far the worst. This has no reflection on the folks that managed the leagues, in fact quite the opposite.</span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;"> Kevin Rich Edan and Matty Y worked their butts off. One player games are bad. It goes against the spirit of playing and competing with friends. If I wanted to play pinball by myself I could do that home. Much luv to the pinball Tribe.</span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;">Ed</span><br clear="none">
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<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">-----Original Message-----</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">From: Stephanie Traub via FSPA <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">></span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">To: FSPA main discussion list <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">></span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Cc: Stephanie Traub <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:stephsharer@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">stephsharer@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">></span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2021 9:39 am</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Subject: Re: [FSPA] READ ME! Preplays vs. Drop 2 Survey!</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Hey all, going to close the survey now as we have more results than Survey Monkey will let us view for free .... heh. Thank you for all your responses! We will analyze the results and get back to everyone.</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 12:16 AM Wei-Hwa Huang via FSPA <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">> wrote:</span>
<blockquote style="border-left:thin solid rgb(52,152,219);margin:5px;padding-left:10px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Maybe people like playing against people in one-player groups.</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 7:15 PM Austin Mackert via FSPA <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">> wrote:</span>
<blockquote style="border-left:thin solid rgb(211,84,0);margin:5px;padding-left:10px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">The survey says, people like playing in one-player groups, apparently.</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Weird.</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 9:30 PM Edward Most via FSPA <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">> wrote:</span>
<blockquote style="border-left:thin solid rgb(52,73,94);margin:5px;padding-left:10px;"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small;">and the survey says???</span><br clear="none">
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<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">-----Original Message-----</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">From: Daniel Reynolds via FSPA <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">></span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">To: FSPA main discussion list <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">></span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">CC: Daniel Reynolds <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:daniel.j.reynolds@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">daniel.j.reynolds@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">></span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Sent: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:06</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Subject: Re: [FSPA] READ ME! Preplays vs. Drop 2 Survey!</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">regardless of the results, i appreciate FSPA management reaching out for general opinions. thanks for all you folks do.</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 11:20 AM Stephanie Traub via FSPA <</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">> wrote:</span>
<blockquote style="border-left:thin solid rgb(46,204,113);margin:5px;padding-left:10px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">SURVEY! SURVEY! SURVEY!</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">At the request of FSPA Exec, please find a link below to take a survey regarding your feelings about drop two vs. preplays. Please take it only if you played in this past season and thus were exposed to this new system.</span><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5</a><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">I will close the survey at COB FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 3. So don't delay!</span><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5</a><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5</a><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5</a><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/G5KBHK5</a><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Thanks!</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Stephanie</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">_______________________________________________</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">FSPA mailing list</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a></blockquote>
<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">_______________________________________________</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">FSPA mailing list</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">_______________________________________________</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">FSPA mailing list</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a></blockquote>
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<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">--</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">Wei-Hwa Huang, </span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:onigame@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">onigame@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">-----------------------------------------------------------</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">"Where are all the time travellers?" -- generalizing the Fermi Paradox to four dimensions</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none">
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<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">_______________________________________________</span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;">FSPA mailing list</span><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="https://mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><a shape="rect" style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:small;" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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<span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>FSPA mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a></span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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