<div dir="auto"><div>Very interesting, thanks for explaining. Things seem to have evolved quite a bit from the infamous "FSPA grouping thingy"<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">--- Dave</div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:31 PM Rob Wintler-Cox <<a href="mailto:rwintlercox@gmail.com">rwintlercox@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">We don’t use shuffle at MOM’s when I select the games because despite what Steve said you end up with groups following others. For example, I just plugged in last night’s game picks and shuffle had group 2 right behind group 1 after the first game. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For MOM’s I use a spreadsheet based on the sheet Joe K used at VBH which I believe was originally built by Scott. It is more curated than random so that groups don’t end up behind each other, but you do end up with patterns like the one you indicated. Eventually I plan to make it completely random, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">John used shuffle back when I was leaving early and recused myself from game selection. We can try it again if you want to see how it works.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 7:09 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hm, that would lead me to believe that games 2,3,4 are random, and looking at the results on this thread for MOMs, there are definitely patterns.</div><div><br></div><div>Group 3 went 8BD -> Metallica > Iron Maiden -> BKSOR</div><div>Group 6 went Iron Maiden -> BKSOR -> 8BD -> Metallica</div><div><br></div><div>Group 4 went Dialed In -> AFM -> AIQ -> Hot Tip</div><div>Group 5 went AIQ -> Hot Tip -> Dialed In -> AFM</div><div><br></div><div>That's a loop of the same games for those group pairs, which seems really odd if a true shuffle is happening. Week 1 doesn't exhibit this pattern though.<br></div><div><br></div><div>MOM's brass: how are y'all doing game sets? I'm really curious now.</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div> --- Dave<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 6:11 PM steve <<a href="mailto:flynnibus@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">flynnibus@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">You likely won't know who picked what, but you will know what games were picked and therefore which games are </span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">> going to show up in other people's groups</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">I don't think any of the leagues have been using this method for some time. That was the old paper distribution model where the available games for the night were taken from the game picks, and then distributed in a following pattern intended to have higher groups follow lower groups.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">But since the migration to the tatersoft software, there is a 'shuffle' feature that doesn't use the same game assignment logic. It simply picks a game you haven't played, that also hasn't been assigned yet for that round. Does that for each group, then repeats for each round. So it selects from the pool of location games and decides based on avoiding conflicts, not based on which games were picked for round 1.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">-Steve</span></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div>
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On Thursday, September 30, 2021, 06:04:29 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:
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<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_7483322945376991685m_3236010097266004119gmail-m_3329501579197539754ydpf1c7e8e7yiv2004841552" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">They are definitely overrated. It's one game out of 40 that you play in a season. It's insignificant unless your league officer(s) use a progression for determining the other games in your group that involve everyone else's game picks, in which case people with later game picks can, theoretically, pick games in other groups as well.<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Something like this. Imagine you have 12 machines for league, noted A through L for simplicity.<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Group 1 picks machine A</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Group 2 picks machine B</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">...</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Group 8 is last to pick, and 7 machines have already been chosen. This group's pick will be game H, leaving I/J/K/L to be assigned randomly to the progression.</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Every group in groups 1-7 that includes slot H is effectively chosen by group 8's game picker, and you can trace this back up the groups as well (for example, there's probably a few groups that include G, chosen by group 7).</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">So basically, game picks are not just your pick unless your SLO is filling out the other 3 games randomly. You likely won't know who picked what, but you will know what games were picked and therefore which games are going to show up in other people's groups. If you know the progression (and your SLO uses the same one every week) then with a little effort you can know which other groups are going to get the game you pick for your group, and that might be advantageous.<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"> --- Dave<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_7483322945376991685m_3236010097266004119gmail-m_3329501579197539754ydpf1c7e8e7yiv2004841552yqt21789" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 3:13 PM Kevin Stone via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
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<p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I think game picks are overrated. Every time I’ve picked a game, I end up playing horrible on it.<u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u></span></p>
<p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u> <u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u></span></p>
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<p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><b style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"> FSPA [mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa-bounces%2Bpinball" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">fspa-bounces+pinball</a>=<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kevinsplanet.com@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">kevinsplanet.com@fspazone.org</a>]
<b style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">On Behalf Of </b>Joe Schober via FSPA<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 29, 2021 11:47 PM<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">To:</b> FSPA main discussion list<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Joe Schober<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [FSPA] FSPA: MOM's Organic Pinball Results for 09/29/2021 (Meet #2)<u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u></span></p>
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<p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Steph wrote...<u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u></p>
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<p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">I don’t understand the ladder movement. I won my group but stayed in the same group, I suppose this has to do with rearranging the groups into three person groups after this meet but now who gets game picks?<u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u></p>
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<p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">"<span style="background-image:none;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(31,50,71)">At each meet, the winner of each group who has moved up (except the winner of group 1) will choose their new group’s first machine to be played. In the lowest
group, the lowest-ranked player will choose the first machine to be played. If there is a conflict due to dropouts and regrouping, then the lowest-ranked player in each affected group will have the machine pick."</span><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u></p>
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