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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">"<span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">We don’t use shuffle at MOM’s when I select the games </span></span><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">because despite what Steve said you end up with groups following others"</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Not what I said - I said shuffle doesn't let a group repeat a game and doesn't assign two groups the same game in the same round. AFAIK those are the only real constraints it is fully bound by.. as Joe has described to me.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">The '<span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">old paper distribution' I referenced were the patterns people used to assign games based on the initial picks. There were several formulas people advocated for over the years.. with the primary intent being how to minimize game waits. Pick your favor soothsayer's version of logic in how to achieve that. There was no one 'blessed' format - just some used more than others depending on who you subscribed to. Sounds like you are using a version from VBH leader logic...</span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">-Steve</span></span></span></span></div><div><br></div>
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On Thursday, September 30, 2021, 07:32:04 PM EDT, Rob Wintler-Cox via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043"><div><div>We don’t use shuffle at MOM’s when I select the games because despite what Steve said you end up with groups following others. For example, I just plugged in last night’s game picks and shuffle had group 2 right behind group 1 after the first game. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>For MOM’s I use a spreadsheet based on the sheet Joe K used at VBH which I believe was originally built by Scott. It is more curated than random so that groups don’t end up behind each other, but you do end up with patterns like the one you indicated. Eventually I plan to make it completely random, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>John used shuffle back when I was leaving early and recused myself from game selection. We can try it again if you want to see how it works.</div><div><br clear="none"><div class="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043gmail_quote"><div class="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043yqt4740321903" id="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043yqtfd83421"><div class="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 7:09 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hm, that would lead me to believe that games 2,3,4 are random, and looking at the results on this thread for MOMs, there are definitely patterns.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Group 3 went 8BD -> Metallica > Iron Maiden -> BKSOR</div><div>Group 6 went Iron Maiden -> BKSOR -> 8BD -> Metallica</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Group 4 went Dialed In -> AFM -> AIQ -> Hot Tip</div><div>Group 5 went AIQ -> Hot Tip -> Dialed In -> AFM</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>That's a loop of the same games for those group pairs, which seems really odd if a true shuffle is happening. Week 1 doesn't exhibit this pattern though.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>MOM's brass: how are y'all doing game sets? I'm really curious now.</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br clear="none"></div><div> --- Dave<br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043gmail_quote"><div class="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 6:11 PM steve <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:flynnibus@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">flynnibus@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);"><div><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);">You likely won't know who picked what, but you will know what games were picked and therefore which games are </span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);">> going to show up in other people's groups</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);"><br clear="none"></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);">I don't think any of the leagues have been using this method for some time. That was the old paper distribution model where the available games for the night were taken from the game picks, and then distributed in a following pattern intended to have higher groups follow lower groups.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);"><br clear="none"></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);">But since the migration to the tatersoft software, there is a 'shuffle' feature that doesn't use the same game assignment logic. It simply picks a game you haven't played, that also hasn't been assigned yet for that round. Does that for each group, then repeats for each round. So it selects from the pool of location games and decides based on avoiding conflicts, not based on which games were picked for round 1.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);"><br clear="none"></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);">-Steve</span></span></div><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div>
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On Thursday, September 30, 2021, 06:04:29 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:
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<div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><div id="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043m_3236010097266004119gmail-m_3329501579197539754ydpf1c7e8e7yiv2004841552" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">They are definitely overrated. It's one game out of 40 that you play in a season. It's insignificant unless your league officer(s) use a progression for determining the other games in your group that involve everyone else's game picks, in which case people with later game picks can, theoretically, pick games in other groups as well.<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Something like this. Imagine you have 12 machines for league, noted A through L for simplicity.<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Group 1 picks machine A</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Group 2 picks machine B</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">...</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Group 8 is last to pick, and 7 machines have already been chosen. This group's pick will be game H, leaving I/J/K/L to be assigned randomly to the progression.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Every group in groups 1-7 that includes slot H is effectively chosen by group 8's game picker, and you can trace this back up the groups as well (for example, there's probably a few groups that include G, chosen by group 7).</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">So basically, game picks are not just your pick unless your SLO is filling out the other 3 games randomly. You likely won't know who picked what, but you will know what games were picked and therefore which games are going to show up in other people's groups. If you know the progression (and your SLO uses the same one every week) then with a little effort you can know which other groups are going to get the game you pick for your group, and that might be advantageous.<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"> --- Dave<br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><div id="ydp3a32ad35yiv5075907043m_3236010097266004119gmail-m_3329501579197539754ydpf1c7e8e7yiv2004841552yqt21789" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 3:13 PM Kevin Stone via FSPA <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);">
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<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);">I think game picks are overrated. Every time I’ve picked a game, I end up playing horrible on it.<u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u></span></p>
<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);"><u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u> <u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><b style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"> FSPA [mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:fspa-bounces%2Bpinball" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fspa-bounces+pinball</a>=<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kevinsplanet.com@fspazone.org" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kevinsplanet.com@fspazone.org</a>]
<b style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">On Behalf Of </b>Joe Schober via FSPA<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 29, 2021 11:47 PM<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">To:</b> FSPA main discussion list<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Cc:</b> Joe Schober<br clear="none">
<b style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Subject:</b> Re: [FSPA] FSPA: MOM's Organic Pinball Results for 09/29/2021 (Meet #2)<u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Steph wrote...<u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u></p>
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<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">I don’t understand the ladder movement. I won my group but stayed in the same group, I suppose this has to do with rearranging the groups into three person groups after this meet but now who gets game picks?<u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u></p>
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<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">"<span style="background-image:none;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(31,50,71);">At each meet, the winner of each group who has moved up (except the winner of group 1) will choose their new group’s first machine to be played. In the lowest
group, the lowest-ranked player will choose the first machine to be played. If there is a conflict due to dropouts and regrouping, then the lowest-ranked player in each affected group will have the machine pick."</span><u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></u></p>
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