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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m actually working on a new groupie thingie for Mustang Sally to minimize number of groups using games from top 2 groups (and none used between those two
groups). Started this last league night this past Tuesday. Still using the basic games being chosen by each group, then fill out the rest of the “groupie thingy” randomly (seeding the games into the method). This is a lot easier than when we did this at
Mighty Mike’s because at that location there were more groups than games. Nice to have the opposite at MSB. I’m working on a version with 13 games for 6, 7 and 8 groups. I’ll share when done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> FSPA [mailto:fspa-bounces@fspazone.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Kosack via FSPA<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FSPA main discussion list<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joe Kosack<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FSPA] FSPA: MOM's Organic Pinball Results for 09/29/2021 (Meet #2)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As the creator of the spreadsheet, it’s really good at adapting the groups for up to 13 machines with the FSPA grouping thingy as a base. However, I ended up just making up my own brackets once we got beyond 13 machines at VBH to minimize
wait times as much as humanly possible. There’s no way to completely eliminate wait times, but we had fewer groups waiting on Groups 1 and 2.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Joe K<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:57 PM, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa@fspazone.org> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Very interesting, thanks for explaining. Things seem to have evolved quite a bit from the infamous "FSPA grouping thingy"
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--- Dave<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:31 PM Rob Wintler-Cox <<a href="mailto:rwintlercox@gmail.com">rwintlercox@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We don’t use shuffle at MOM’s when I select the games because despite what Steve said you end up with groups following others. For example, I just plugged in last night’s game picks and shuffle had group 2 right behind group 1 after the
first game. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For MOM’s I use a spreadsheet based on the sheet Joe K used at VBH which I believe was originally built by Scott. It is more curated than random so that groups don’t end up behind each other, but you do end up with patterns like the one
you indicated. Eventually I plan to make it completely random, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John used shuffle back when I was leaving early and recused myself from game selection. We can try it again if you want to see how it works.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 7:09 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hm, that would lead me to believe that games 2,3,4 are random, and looking at the results on this thread for MOMs, there are definitely patterns.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Group 3 went 8BD -> Metallica > Iron Maiden -> BKSOR<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Group 6 went Iron Maiden -> BKSOR -> 8BD -> Metallica<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Group 4 went Dialed In -> AFM -> AIQ -> Hot Tip<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Group 5 went AIQ -> Hot Tip -> Dialed In -> AFM<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">That's a loop of the same games for those group pairs, which seems really odd if a true shuffle is happening. Week 1 doesn't exhibit this pattern though.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">MOM's brass: how are y'all doing game sets? I'm really curious now.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> --- Dave<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 6:11 PM steve <<a href="mailto:flynnibus@yahoo.com" target="_blank">flynnibus@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">You likely won't know who picked what, but you will know what games were picked and therefore which games are </span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">> going to show up in other people's groups</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">I don't think any of the leagues have been using this method for some time. That was the old paper distribution model where the available games for the night were taken from
the game picks, and then distributed in a following pattern intended to have higher groups follow lower groups.</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">But since the migration to the tatersoft software, there is a 'shuffle' feature that doesn't use the same game assignment logic. It simply picks a game you haven't played,
that also hasn't been assigned yet for that round. Does that for each group, then repeats for each round. So it selects from the pool of location games and decides based on avoiding conflicts, not based on which games were picked for round 1.</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">-Steve</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">On Thursday, September 30, 2021, 06:04:29 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">They are definitely overrated. It's one game out of 40 that you play in a season. It's insignificant unless your league officer(s) use a progression for
determining the other games in your group that involve everyone else's game picks, in which case people with later game picks can, theoretically, pick games in other groups as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Something like this. Imagine you have 12 machines for league, noted A through L for simplicity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Group 1 picks machine A<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Group 2 picks machine B<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Group 8 is last to pick, and 7 machines have already been chosen. This group's pick will be game H, leaving I/J/K/L to be assigned randomly to the progression.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Every group in groups 1-7 that includes slot H is effectively chosen by group 8's game picker, and you can trace this back up the groups as well (for example,
there's probably a few groups that include G, chosen by group 7).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">So basically, game picks are not just your pick unless your SLO is filling out the other 3 games randomly. You likely won't know who picked what, but you
will know what games were picked and therefore which games are going to show up in other people's groups. If you know the progression (and your SLO uses the same one every week) then with a little effort you can know which other groups are going to get the
game you pick for your group, and that might be advantageous.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"> --- Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 3:13 PM Kevin Stone via FSPA <<a href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank">fspa@fspazone.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think game picks are overrated. Every time I’ve picked a game, I end up playing horrible on it.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"> FSPA [mailto:<a href="mailto:fspa-bounces%2Bpinball" target="_blank">fspa-bounces+pinball</a>=<a href="mailto:kevinsplanet.com@fspazone.org" target="_blank">kevinsplanet.com@fspazone.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Schober via FSPA<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 29, 2021 11:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FSPA main discussion list<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joe Schober<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [FSPA] FSPA: MOM's Organic Pinball Results for 09/29/2021 (Meet #2)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">Steph wrote...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">I don’t understand the ladder movement. I won my group but stayed in the same group, I suppose this has to do with rearranging the groups into three person groups after this
meet but now who gets game picks?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">"</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F3247;background:white">At each meet, the winner of each group who has moved up (except the
winner of group 1) will choose their new group’s first machine to be played. In the lowest group, the lowest-ranked player will choose the first machine to be played. If there is a conflict due to dropouts and regrouping, then the lowest-ranked player in each
affected group will have the machine pick."</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">_______________________________________________<br>
FSPA mailing list<br>
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<a href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#26282A">_______________________________________________<br>
FSPA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa" target="_blank">http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
FSPA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:FSPA@fspazone.org" target="_blank">FSPA@fspazone.org</a><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa<o:p></o:p></p>
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