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<p>+1 to all of this. I never joined FSPA (though I come to events
now and then) partially because it's a pain for me to get to most
of the locations regularly, but also because there were always too
many rules for my liking. I'd much rather play in a more casual
league and if I get grouped with the best person there, that's
great! I will probably learn a bunch of secrets on whatever game
we're playing; I don't play often enough any more to understand
the rulesets of most of the new games deeply. Maybe someday. :)
And I, too, do not care what WPPR/IFPA is.</p>
<p>But since I'm not a regular, definitely take this feedback with a
grain of salt. :)<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/12/2024 1:29 PM, Jeff Brocketti
via FSPA wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A7AA196F-ECD8-4A7B-A2A2-E8829FFA3B81@yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I’m sure many of you have no idea who I am, but I’ve been reading
all of these posts by everyone and thought I’d chime in. My wife
Julie and I started playing in FSPA back when it was located at
the NOVA Annandale campus. My wife found it in its infancy and
introduced me to it and we were loyal players until we moved away
in 2006. What I remember about that experience is having a fun two
hour escape from life, learning more about pinball, and hanging
out with great people. When we moved back in 2011, I found John’s
Place and played there until it shut down and had the same great
experiences. I would sometimes get my butt kicked by Chris
Newsome and a very young Ethan Blonders (who could barely see the
playfield). I would always be amazed at how Scott Sidley could fix
just about anything in exchange for a Mexican Coke. But I always
looked forward to it and had a great time. I feel like these
types of things are what most people remember about playing in
FSPA.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I always seek out pinball when I’m anywhere that might have a
machine. I’ve been to the pinball hall of fame in Vegas at each
of the three places it’s been located. Bottom line…I consider
myself a pinball enthusiast, yet I also have no idea what WPPR
is nor do I really care (not to take anything away from anyone
who does). I play because it’s fun and FSPA gave me an
opportunity to hang out with other pinball nerds who can discuss
rulesets and actually care. I’ve only competed in one tournament
but that is because FSPA hosted it in Fairfax and it sounded
fun. I’ve never been to Pinburgh. I have no idea if I have a
ranking because I’ve never bothered checking. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So if anything I would be MORE interested in a casual league
than a super competitive one. I would rather have fun in a
format that works than play in a format that is worse because
I’m never going to be a world class player. I just want to have
fun, period. I did like one of the previous ideas of having the
“casual” league start an hour or so before the “competitive”
league. That way, you’re also not waiting for an hour for a
machine to open up. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as the parties go, I only attended when they were at
people’s homes so I can’t comment on the commercial locations.
But other than getting to play well maintained games for free, I
never really enjoyed the parties much anyway. I much preferred
when the prizes were awarded immediately on site after the
playoffs ended. If I were still playing, I wouldn’t attend
parties and would either like an opt out or just nix them all
together. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry for the length of the email. 🙂</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
Jeff</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On May 12, 2024, at 12:25 PM, Steve
Jones via FSPA <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org"><fspa@fspazone.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">I've been playing in the league for 5 years
(at least until Spinners closed..) and to be honest, I
have no idea what a WPPR is..</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, May 12, 2024 at
12:15 PM Dan Reynolds via FSPA <<a
href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><br
id="m_-6372160088475600119lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature">
<div dir="ltr">It shouldn’t be surprising that people
who don’t even play in the league anymore don’t care
about WPPRs.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On May 12, 2024, at 9:45 AM,
Stephen Jonke via FSPA <<a
href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto">As I said before, I’m absolutely
in favor of dropping WPPRs and then doing
what’s fun instead of what complies. On top of
that, let’s just say that the FSPA shrinks as
a result. Is that so bad? Suddenly house
parties become an option again in that case.
Though I suspect dropping WPPRs will not cause
a mass exodus. <br>
<br>
For me an issue is we no longer have a league
in Maryland. I can’t drive to the VA locations
every week. Or rather I could, but all that
driving is not great. Don’t know what can be
done about that. </div>
</div>
<div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>
Steve</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On May 11, 2024 at
2:09 PM -0400, Barry Schwartz via FSPA <<a
href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>,
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-left:thin solid grey;margin:5px;padding-left:10px">
<div dir="ltr">
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal"><span>Party-I
love a good pinball party and especially
love reconnecting with old FSPA
friends. <span> </span>I also appreciate
party games and the surrounding friendly
competition and they motivate me to
attend. <span> </span>However, I
generally am unwilling to travel an hour
or more just for a party and frankly,
pizza demotivates me. <span> </span>So,
I have only attended sparsely in the
past few years. </span></p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal;min-height:22px"><span></span><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal"><span>Competition
format-I don’t care much about WPPRs as
I don’t play enough events in a year nor
am I good enough to be top rated. <span> </span>I
started playing in FSPA and would
happily continue without them. <span> </span>I’m
in it for the balanced but friendly
competition and camaraderie it brings. <span> </span>I’ve
developed many friendships through
league affiliation. <span> </span>The
competition is also important to my
experience as it excites me in a way
that little else does. <span> </span>That’s
why I participate in occasional
tournaments. <span> </span>But, it’s
immediate and local vs IFPAs state and
world levels. <span> </span>So, I vote
for the FSPA to focus on balanced
friendly competition and frankly think
too much attention is paid to WPPRs in
the pinball community. <span> </span>The
IFPA exists for the top 1%, not for
me. </span></p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal;min-height:22px"><span></span><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal;min-height:22px">Barry</p>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On May 11, 2024, at
11:57 AM, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <<a
href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:08 AM Sergio
Johnson via FSPA <<a
href="mailto:fspa@fspazone.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fspa@fspazone.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Calling the party
contribution a “tax” is a bit
unfair lol. It’s an association
benefit that some folks choose
not to take advantage of but
that others like. The reality is
that everyone subsidizes
something else in the league
that may not be for them, but
someone else takes advantage of.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well, call it whatever you want,
it's a part of dues that I'm
essentially just setting on fire. I
am FAR from alone on this. By your
own admission, the party isn't
self-sustaining and depends on
significant no-shows to even
happen. Is that healthy? It's
probably getting worse with the
rising cost of everything, and I
assume that raising dues just to
cover increased party costs is a
non-starter (at least I hope it
is). All I'm asking is to really
rethink whether it's worth it, and
offer an opt-out for those that have
no interest. There's a way to find
out for sure: do a survey, poll the
playerbase, ask if people would
rather pay $40/season with party, or
$30/season and no party. Let's
gather some data.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>There are players who have
never made the playoffs or very
rarely do, yet there they are,
season after season contributing
to the prize pool that
frequently goes to the same
subset of players at the top
end. They’re subsidizing the
prize fund. Some folks really
don’t want to own a pinball
machine, (I know, go figure!),
but get entered into the drawing
anyway. The party isn’t any
different, and clearly $10 a
head isn’t covering the costs of
it. When we came up with the
cost years ago it was with the
assumption that not all would
likely attend. I guess we could
go to a “a la carte” system for
all of it but it would be an
administrative headache trying
to keep track of who is “in” for
prizes, party and giveaway. That
said, we could make all of those
optional and really get bare
bones with it. Something to
think about. Does the size of
the prize pool or trophies
matter to folks?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is disingenuous. FSPA's
playoff structure has always
included a multitude of divisions
such that even the worst players in
the league can have a legitimate
shot at their division playoffs, and
therefore win something. It's not
just bad players subsidizing "the
top end." No one is asking for
opt-in (or opt-out) to the prize
pool, which wouldn't make any
sense. I don't think anyone is
asking for an opt-out for the
giveaway machine, it's essentially
just a raffle.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To your last question, the size
of the prize pool doesn't entirely
matter to me, as long as it's
something. Trophies do not matter.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>The private feedback that
I’ve gotten so far is that folks
really hate the wide disparities
in skill levels seen in the
early weeks of the new system.
It was not a fun experience for
them. Unfortunately that’s the
cost of doing business with the
IFPA. If anyone has any
additional feedback on that or
other topics, I’d love to hear
it!</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just a feeling... but it might be
time to decide whether FSPA wants to
be a competitive thing or a casual
thing. I know the party line in the
past was trying to strike some sort
of balance, but if people really
hate the result of kowtowing to IFPA
in an attempt to keep points, maybe
it's time to pick a side. Believe
it or not, I actually think you
should lean into the casual side.
Competitive players who care about
points will continue to go to
tournaments. FSPA can exist for the
more casual/social side, and without
having to worry about the IFPA, you
can go back to the ladder system
and/or do whatever you want.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> --- Dave<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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