[FSPA] previously unknown pinball technique discovered?

Fri Sep 7 12:21:30 EDT 2018

Kim - would love to see someone test the lighter force in the second video
on a vertical slam tilt. i'd be surprised to see one sensitive enough to be
set off by this and never be set off by any big legitimate nudge

Dave, good point about the surface I had the same curiosity myself thinking
about why this might not work for someone.

it's certainly possible that having some give somewhere vertically matters.
if so i would think the rubber feet that i.e. papa uses would be enough.
Probably if anything, more hits are required the less give present under
the legs, vs preventing the technique altogether.

I could test this on location if there were one anywhere near me with
appropriate floors, but harford county is a total pinball vacuum.
otherwise, someone who can *consistently do the technique on carpet* could
test on cement,
If on location you would have to run more tests but could still determine
it (intentionally tilt with some shaking, use the technique, try some slap
saves, observe danger/no danger, rinse, repeat to get a nice sample. do the
same without using the technique to get a baseline)
worst case I have a machine going in my unfinished basement room (cement
floor) in ~6 months so i'll test it then.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 12:09 PM, KIM BRENNAN via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
wrote:

> Many games already have something for vertical slam tilts. All one has to
> do is adjust it to be more sensitive, and this technique will be moot.
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Dan Reynolds via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
> wrote:
>
> if it becomes a problem, it'd be pretty easy to rig up a vertical slam
> tilt to stop people doing this.
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:56 AM Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
> wrote:
>
>> if you try it instead of speculating you will understand how universally
>> effective this is. I've been doing this for months.
>>
>> Maybe I shouldn't have been so eager to share... Lots of naysaying and
>> negativity based on no experimentatiom after watching a hastily recorded
>> video
>>  You must love waiting minutes for a bobber to stop in the middle of a
>> ball
>>
>> Feel free to try it, or not. I'll enjoy not having to either shut down my
>> flow or stop nudging for minutes after a big save.
>>
>> /shrug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018, 12:44 AM steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Games have variations... without good sampling you're blind.  I didn't
>>> say it won't work.. I said you're going blind.  So you don't know if you
>>> are being effective or not, for how long, etc.
>>>
>>> Don't worry... I'm not going to challenge your 'world first' with
>>> another world first.  I feel confident enough in my engineering education.
>>> But if I find a convenient shaker... I'll give the world the first power
>>> assisted tilt stopper.
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 7, 2018, 12:37:26 AM EDT, Steve Peck <
>>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> so it definitely works no matter how you hit it, but without seeing the
>>> bobber there's no way the technique can be known to work? Which is it?
>>>
>>> I'll look forward to your video stopping a bobber in 15 seconds hitting
>>> the side of the cab instead. And somehow being preferable as far as
>>> noise/disruption.
>>>
>>> On Sep 7, 2018 12:31 AM, "steve" <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >1a - you sure the direction of the vibrations is irrelevant? you did
>>> the maths?
>>>
>>> Because I know you aren't getting any vertical movement...  you are
>>> banging a solid cabinet with solid legs into a solid floor.  You are not
>>> getting vertical displacement unless you are bending the legs, or bouncing
>>> off the floor.  So the fact you are hitting downward... is irrelevant.
>>>
>>> Banging the cabinet simply causing it to vibrate... in nearly all
>>> directions chaotically.  And the effect works because of the rattling of
>>> the tilt hanger and tilt rod creating all kinds of extra movements and
>>> contacts... that work to disrupt the pivot contact and introduces rattle at
>>> the contact which kills the stable pendulum mount.
>>>
>>> Take a newton's craddle toy and vibrate the table it's on.. you'll find
>>> it's very ineffective and dies off quickly.  Or as everyone who ever skated
>>> as a kid knows...  spin a worn out bearing and find it spins less
>>> efficiently than one with tighter tolerances.
>>>
>>> It doesn't have to do with the direction of movement, but the lack of
>>> steady contact combined with vibration leads to chaotic movement that kills
>>> the kinetic energy of the pendulum.  Which is why I said a dildo attached
>>> to the cabinet would do effectively the same thing.  You just need enough
>>> amplitude in the waves to disrupt the tilt contact point.  And since it's
>>> just hanging there by gravity with nothing holding them tightly together..
>>> it's easy to do.
>>>
>>> Signed...
>>> Science
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 11:37:59 PM EDT, Steve Peck <
>>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1a - you sure the direction of the vibrations is irrelevant? you did the
>>> maths? cause i'd bet doing this along the plane which the bobber swings has
>>> the potential to increase or decrease the swing
>>> 1b - my hits are going through the vertical 'spine' of the side rails.
>>> this isnt handling them off the game. they dont flex when doing this and
>>> the glass isn't really even moving
>>>
>>> 2 - i figured this out before ever confirming by looking. it works every
>>> time. pretty easy to tell - double danger, do this, have confidence to do a
>>> slap save less than 30s later. if you tried it you would know how reliable
>>> it is instead of speculating
>>>
>>> 3 - how is it so disruptive? it can be done in normal play space and
>>> isn't that loud.
>>>
>>> and for Joe - if it hurts, you're doing it too hard and/or with the
>>> wrong part of your hand. really i recommend the heel of the palm and the
>>> speed/force of an enthusiastic clap or so.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:27 PM, steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1a - The downward movement isn't the key.  It's the vibrations.  Its why
>>> you hit fast, not slow and big
>>> 1b - The side rails are thin and often poorly supported behind depending
>>> on the fit of the trim and glass.  If you've ever handled them off a game,
>>> you'd see how easy it is to bend or crease them.
>>>
>>> 2 - Hindsight is 20/20...  aka when you can confirm it by peeking
>>>
>>> 3 - My comment isn't purely about the noise.  Plus, with games with
>>> looser glass, it will be an bigger issue.
>>>
>>> Go get something like a feedback motor... or d-cell battery operated toy
>>> you'd find in a sex shop... and hold it against the cabinet.  I bet you
>>> find the same result as long as the motor shakes enough for the energy to
>>> get to the tilt mount.  Play with the speeds... and you'll see how quickly
>>> you can kill the movement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 11:20:03 PM EDT, Steve Peck <
>>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1 - how are you going to hit straight down through the side of the
>>> cabinet while hitting wood? how are you going to dent a side rail with the
>>> fleshy side of your fist or your palm?
>>>
>>> 2 - it works. Well.
>>>
>>> 3 - maybe, but again the video makes it seem much louder than it really
>>> is in person. since a fleshy part of the hand is used it's a fairly
>>> dull/low thudding.
>>>
>>> regardless of how sustained this is you're never, ever going to hurt a
>>> machine doing it. i really doubt a bare hand could do anything to a side
>>> rail even if you're trying but the technique doesnt require that much force
>>> - it's all about inducing vibration on the axis that runs vertically
>>> through the bobber.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:01 PM, steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a solution that is far worse than the actual problem
>>>
>>> 1 - Hitting the rail is completely unnecessary when you could have just
>>> hit the wood cabinet and avoided the risk of denting the side rails
>>> 2 - In practice you can't tell if its working or not... so you can go
>>> banging along blindly
>>> 3 - It's very disruptive to people around you
>>>
>>> While it may be less force than nudging... you don't nudge for 10-30
>>> seconds consequently.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't recommend you do this as a practice.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 10:50:48 PM EDT, Steve Peck via FSPA <
>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> oh it's also not as loud in person as it seems in the video
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:47 PM Steve Peck <speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> it doesn't take that much force. Certainly less than standard nudging
>>> and not in a way that could ever hurt a machine.
>>>
>>> You bet I'm doing this for 15 seconds in comp rather than waiting 3 min
>>> for a bobber to stop and I doubt there's any rule against such a thing.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:44 PM eric schoch via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If someone complains at a tournament you tell them to “STFU i am playing
>>> pinball.  Do some research!”
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 9:59:24 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <
>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> So... basically you're beating on the cabinet instead of just waiting
>>> for the tilt bob to slow down on its own.  Two comments:
>>>
>>> 1) If I ever saw you do this to one of my pins, that would be the last
>>> time you play it.
>>> 2) If you were doing this next to me in a tournament, a TD is getting
>>> called for interference.
>>>
>>> Sure, it works, but it's just about the most annoying "technique" I can
>>> think of.
>>>
>>> Flame away.
>>>
>>>      --- Dave
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Roy via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=_slFooZkmpw&feature=youtu.be
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_slFooZkmpw&feature=youtu.be>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/6/2018 9:36 PM, Colin Horner via FSPA wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there anything that would convince you to "give up" that pursuit?
>>>
>>> Josh Jurgensen via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> If this 'video proof' turns out to just be a Rick astley clip, I'm going
>>> to run the risk of getting expelled from all FSPA activities just to slam
>>> tilt any machine you're playing.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 7:56 PM Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> sounds like it really is a new discovery. i'll make a video when i can.
>>>
>>> it's a bare handed nudging technique that should work on any machine
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Brian Newhard via FSPA <
>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rare earth magnet on the bottom of the cabinet?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I might have discovered a previously unknown pinball technique. Not sure
>>> what to do with the info.
>>>
>>> I need to make a video to demonstrate, but first thing is I want to make
>>> sure it's not already known
>>>
>>> so does anyone know of a way to reliably, consistently, and quickly stop
>>> a tilt bobber swinging from normal playing conditions outside the cabinet?
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>>
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