[FSPA] previously unknown pinball technique discovered?

Fri Sep 7 12:30:21 EDT 2018

if anyone in or near harford county with a pin on concrete is interested
enough to have me over for some games i'd be happy to test it that way as
well :)

also, fwiw - my hand muscles are a bit sore today, but i've been doing this
for absurd amounts of time over the last couple days experimenting and
shooting videos.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 12:21 PM, Steve Peck <speckking at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kim - would love to see someone test the lighter force in the second video
> on a vertical slam tilt. i'd be surprised to see one sensitive enough to be
> set off by this and never be set off by any big legitimate nudge
>
> Dave, good point about the surface I had the same curiosity myself
> thinking about why this might not work for someone.
>
> it's certainly possible that having some give somewhere vertically
> matters. if so i would think the rubber feet that i.e. papa uses would be
> enough.
> Probably if anything, more hits are required the less give present under
> the legs, vs preventing the technique altogether.
>
> I could test this on location if there were one anywhere near me with
> appropriate floors, but harford county is a total pinball vacuum.
> otherwise, someone who can *consistently do the technique on carpet* could
> test on cement,
> If on location you would have to run more tests but could still determine
> it (intentionally tilt with some shaking, use the technique, try some slap
> saves, observe danger/no danger, rinse, repeat to get a nice sample. do the
> same without using the technique to get a baseline)
> worst case I have a machine going in my unfinished basement room (cement
> floor) in ~6 months so i'll test it then.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 12:09 PM, KIM BRENNAN via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Many games already have something for vertical slam tilts. All one has to
>> do is adjust it to be more sensitive, and this technique will be moot.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 7, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Dan Reynolds via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> if it becomes a problem, it'd be pretty easy to rig up a vertical slam
>> tilt to stop people doing this.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:56 AM Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> if you try it instead of speculating you will understand how universally
>>> effective this is. I've been doing this for months.
>>>
>>> Maybe I shouldn't have been so eager to share... Lots of naysaying and
>>> negativity based on no experimentatiom after watching a hastily recorded
>>> video
>>>  You must love waiting minutes for a bobber to stop in the middle of a
>>> ball
>>>
>>> Feel free to try it, or not. I'll enjoy not having to either shut down
>>> my flow or stop nudging for minutes after a big save.
>>>
>>> /shrug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 7, 2018, 12:44 AM steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Games have variations... without good sampling you're blind.  I didn't
>>>> say it won't work.. I said you're going blind.  So you don't know if you
>>>> are being effective or not, for how long, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Don't worry... I'm not going to challenge your 'world first' with
>>>> another world first.  I feel confident enough in my engineering education.
>>>> But if I find a convenient shaker... I'll give the world the first power
>>>> assisted tilt stopper.
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, September 7, 2018, 12:37:26 AM EDT, Steve Peck <
>>>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so it definitely works no matter how you hit it, but without seeing the
>>>> bobber there's no way the technique can be known to work? Which is it?
>>>>
>>>> I'll look forward to your video stopping a bobber in 15 seconds hitting
>>>> the side of the cab instead. And somehow being preferable as far as
>>>> noise/disruption.
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 7, 2018 12:31 AM, "steve" <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >1a - you sure the direction of the vibrations is irrelevant? you did
>>>> the maths?
>>>>
>>>> Because I know you aren't getting any vertical movement...  you are
>>>> banging a solid cabinet with solid legs into a solid floor.  You are not
>>>> getting vertical displacement unless you are bending the legs, or bouncing
>>>> off the floor.  So the fact you are hitting downward... is irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> Banging the cabinet simply causing it to vibrate... in nearly all
>>>> directions chaotically.  And the effect works because of the rattling of
>>>> the tilt hanger and tilt rod creating all kinds of extra movements and
>>>> contacts... that work to disrupt the pivot contact and introduces rattle at
>>>> the contact which kills the stable pendulum mount.
>>>>
>>>> Take a newton's craddle toy and vibrate the table it's on.. you'll find
>>>> it's very ineffective and dies off quickly.  Or as everyone who ever skated
>>>> as a kid knows...  spin a worn out bearing and find it spins less
>>>> efficiently than one with tighter tolerances.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't have to do with the direction of movement, but the lack of
>>>> steady contact combined with vibration leads to chaotic movement that kills
>>>> the kinetic energy of the pendulum.  Which is why I said a dildo attached
>>>> to the cabinet would do effectively the same thing.  You just need enough
>>>> amplitude in the waves to disrupt the tilt contact point.  And since it's
>>>> just hanging there by gravity with nothing holding them tightly together..
>>>> it's easy to do.
>>>>
>>>> Signed...
>>>> Science
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 11:37:59 PM EDT, Steve Peck <
>>>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1a - you sure the direction of the vibrations is irrelevant? you did
>>>> the maths? cause i'd bet doing this along the plane which the bobber swings
>>>> has the potential to increase or decrease the swing
>>>> 1b - my hits are going through the vertical 'spine' of the side rails.
>>>> this isnt handling them off the game. they dont flex when doing this and
>>>> the glass isn't really even moving
>>>>
>>>> 2 - i figured this out before ever confirming by looking. it works
>>>> every time. pretty easy to tell - double danger, do this, have confidence
>>>> to do a slap save less than 30s later. if you tried it you would know how
>>>> reliable it is instead of speculating
>>>>
>>>> 3 - how is it so disruptive? it can be done in normal play space and
>>>> isn't that loud.
>>>>
>>>> and for Joe - if it hurts, you're doing it too hard and/or with the
>>>> wrong part of your hand. really i recommend the heel of the palm and the
>>>> speed/force of an enthusiastic clap or so.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:27 PM, steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1a - The downward movement isn't the key.  It's the vibrations.  Its
>>>> why you hit fast, not slow and big
>>>> 1b - The side rails are thin and often poorly supported behind
>>>> depending on the fit of the trim and glass.  If you've ever handled them
>>>> off a game, you'd see how easy it is to bend or crease them.
>>>>
>>>> 2 - Hindsight is 20/20...  aka when you can confirm it by peeking
>>>>
>>>> 3 - My comment isn't purely about the noise.  Plus, with games with
>>>> looser glass, it will be an bigger issue.
>>>>
>>>> Go get something like a feedback motor... or d-cell battery operated
>>>> toy you'd find in a sex shop... and hold it against the cabinet.  I bet you
>>>> find the same result as long as the motor shakes enough for the energy to
>>>> get to the tilt mount.  Play with the speeds... and you'll see how quickly
>>>> you can kill the movement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 11:20:03 PM EDT, Steve Peck <
>>>> speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1 - how are you going to hit straight down through the side of the
>>>> cabinet while hitting wood? how are you going to dent a side rail with the
>>>> fleshy side of your fist or your palm?
>>>>
>>>> 2 - it works. Well.
>>>>
>>>> 3 - maybe, but again the video makes it seem much louder than it really
>>>> is in person. since a fleshy part of the hand is used it's a fairly
>>>> dull/low thudding.
>>>>
>>>> regardless of how sustained this is you're never, ever going to hurt a
>>>> machine doing it. i really doubt a bare hand could do anything to a side
>>>> rail even if you're trying but the technique doesnt require that much force
>>>> - it's all about inducing vibration on the axis that runs vertically
>>>> through the bobber.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:01 PM, steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a solution that is far worse than the actual problem
>>>>
>>>> 1 - Hitting the rail is completely unnecessary when you could have just
>>>> hit the wood cabinet and avoided the risk of denting the side rails
>>>> 2 - In practice you can't tell if its working or not... so you can go
>>>> banging along blindly
>>>> 3 - It's very disruptive to people around you
>>>>
>>>> While it may be less force than nudging... you don't nudge for 10-30
>>>> seconds consequently.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't recommend you do this as a practice.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 10:50:48 PM EDT, Steve Peck via FSPA <
>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> oh it's also not as loud in person as it seems in the video
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:47 PM Steve Peck <speckking at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> it doesn't take that much force. Certainly less than standard nudging
>>>> and not in a way that could ever hurt a machine.
>>>>
>>>> You bet I'm doing this for 15 seconds in comp rather than waiting 3 min
>>>> for a bobber to stop and I doubt there's any rule against such a thing.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:44 PM eric schoch via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If someone complains at a tournament you tell them to “STFU i am
>>>> playing pinball.  Do some research!”
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 9:59:24 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <
>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So... basically you're beating on the cabinet instead of just waiting
>>>> for the tilt bob to slow down on its own.  Two comments:
>>>>
>>>> 1) If I ever saw you do this to one of my pins, that would be the last
>>>> time you play it.
>>>> 2) If you were doing this next to me in a tournament, a TD is getting
>>>> called for interference.
>>>>
>>>> Sure, it works, but it's just about the most annoying "technique" I can
>>>> think of.
>>>>
>>>> Flame away.
>>>>
>>>>      --- Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Roy via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=_slFooZkmpw&feature=youtu.be
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_slFooZkmpw&feature=youtu.be>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/6/2018 9:36 PM, Colin Horner via FSPA wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there anything that would convince you to "give up" that pursuit?
>>>>
>>>> Josh Jurgensen via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If this 'video proof' turns out to just be a Rick astley clip, I'm
>>>> going to run the risk of getting expelled from all FSPA activities just to
>>>> slam tilt any machine you're playing.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 7:56 PM Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> sounds like it really is a new discovery. i'll make a video when i can.
>>>>
>>>> it's a bare handed nudging technique that should work on any machine
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Brian Newhard via FSPA <
>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rare earth magnet on the bottom of the cabinet?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Steve Peck via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>>
>>>> I might have discovered a previously unknown pinball technique. Not
>>>> sure what to do with the info.
>>>>
>>>> I need to make a video to demonstrate, but first thing is I want to
>>>> make sure it's not already known
>>>>
>>>> so does anyone know of a way to reliably, consistently, and quickly
>>>> stop a tilt bobber swinging from normal playing conditions outside the
>>>> cabinet?
>>>>
>>>> -Steve
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>> <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>> <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>> <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing listFSPA at fspazone.orghttp://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>> <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "Never give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking
>>>> about."
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>> <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>> <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> FSPA mailing list
>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/ mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>> <http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> FSPA mailing list
>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FSPA mailing list
>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FSPA mailing list
>> FSPA at fspazone.org
>> http://lists.fspazone.org/mailman/listinfo/fspa
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.fspazone.org/pipermail/fspa/attachments/20180907/363ee9bf/attachment.html>