[FSPA] Preplays are better

Tue Jun 29 22:41:48 EDT 2021

I need an FSPA “dev” environment.

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:41 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
wrote:

> Perhaps, but I think prior discussions on this were mostly theoretical,
> no?  Or is there decent evidence that people actually try to do this with
> successful results?
>
> If someone wants to burn their drop-2 weeks in the _hope_ that they never
> have a bad week and need one, let 'em try.
>
>        --- Dave
>
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:32 PM Matt Wycoff <mwycoff at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Without fully understanding what’s “in your head” I think this introduces
>> the “julies rule” problem :)
>>
>> To be more specific good players that game the system to drop down to
>> lower groups to rack points up.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:30 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd think they get the same zero points as if they just forfeited.  To
>>> be clear, this idea doesn't include preplays either - live play only.  In
>>> the system I'm imagining in my head, they just don't exist for that week
>>> and their ladder position is adjusted to be whatever it ends up being
>>> (formula TBD, but maybe off the top of my head, no-show = previous ladder
>>> position minus 2 spots).
>>>
>>> In a system like that, you don't need to drop people from the league
>>> after X weeks either.  If someone quits, they just drop to the bottom
>>> collecting zeros and no one cares.  You can still do the drop-2 idea to
>>> help smooth things for those that can't be there every week.
>>>
>>>
>>>        --- Dave
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:18 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How does that affect the person that didn't make it to league that
>>>> night? Do they just not get any points if everyone else is being paired up
>>>> around them?
>>>>
>>>> On June 29, 2021 10:04:16 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <
>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Preplays might be better, but that's just choosing the best of two bad
>>>>> options. No one likes playing against mystery scores where you have no idea
>>>>> how the game was set up or whether they played by the rules (multiple extra
>>>>> balls?) or whether it's just a made up score. And you're still playing by
>>>>> yourself if everyone else in your group doesn't show up, so you haven't
>>>>> solved that problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue isn't preplays vs. drop-2, it's the fixed groups. If we had
>>>>> a system where players checked in before league then we just peel them off
>>>>> in groups of 3 or 4, the "number of people in the group" problem disappears.
>>>>>
>>>>> You'd need a different laddering system, but surely that's solveable.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 9:52 PM Matt Wycoff via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s a trade off, you can force four player groups in the software
>>>>>> but with “many” groups you can run into game backlogs especially with top
>>>>>> heavy leagues like many of us have.  (Good players).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To compensate for this, if there are enough location games you can
>>>>>> have more 3 player groups but you do run the risk of a 1 person group from
>>>>>> time to time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:48 PM Stephen Jonke via FSPA <
>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That’s how it should have been handled by the rules, but the
>>>>>>> question is do 1 player groups happen more often with the drop 2 worst
>>>>>>> weeks rule? Maybe. It will be interesting to see what happens in the last 2
>>>>>>> weeks, and especially last week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, 9:36 PM -0400, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <
>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org>, wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you mean “reorganized” groups?  You can combine people into
>>>>>>> groups for socially competitive purposes but the rules clearly state..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “ If only one player in a group is present and eligible to play (or
>>>>>>> has preplay scores for) a game, that player earns a win by forfeit and
>>>>>>> receives three (3) game points. That player still plays the game and his
>>>>>>> score will be recorded for statistical purposes.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:28 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <
>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And that makes it tough for those of us that don't have set
>>>>>>>> schedules at work and can potentially get stuck at any moment. In my case I
>>>>>>>> always try my best to send a notice but it can be easy to get caught up
>>>>>>>> trying to make it in time that you totally miss what time it actually is.
>>>>>>>> Whether it actually *is* any better or not, I felt a lot less stressed
>>>>>>>> knowing I had preplays on standby just in case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For various reasons I feel a lot better when there is a backup set
>>>>>>>> of preplays that can be used in this situation. At the very least there
>>>>>>>> needs to be clear expectations of what the limits are if we stick with the
>>>>>>>> no prepay/drop two rule but for me personally the undated preplay system
>>>>>>>> worked well and if we were taking a poll that would be my preference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On June 29, 2021 9:12:34 PM EDT, Deb Kapke via FSPA <
>>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I feel like if we have a drop-2 rule then we also need a
>>>>>>>>> let-a-league-officer-know-you-won’t-be-here rule.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It can be mission critical.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Kevin Stone via FSPA <
>>>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I thought dropping 2 scores would be better than preplays, but it
>>>>>>>>> is absolutely not. We would have had two 1 actual player groups tonight in
>>>>>>>>> first and last group,  but adjusted groups.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2 player groups SUCK.  You can crush a game and still get 1 point
>>>>>>>>> for 2nd place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can figure this shit out,  I'm impressed. Edan and I got it
>>>>>>>>> re-organized but it was a pain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [image: Image]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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