[FSPA] Preplays are better

Tue Jun 29 22:55:53 EDT 2021

Ocelot v0.3B

On June 29, 2021 10:41:48 PM EDT, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>I need an FSPA “dev” environment.
>
>On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:41 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA
><fspa at fspazone.org>
>wrote:
>
>> Perhaps, but I think prior discussions on this were mostly
>theoretical,
>> no?  Or is there decent evidence that people actually try to do this
>with
>> successful results?
>>
>> If someone wants to burn their drop-2 weeks in the _hope_ that they
>never
>> have a bad week and need one, let 'em try.
>>
>>        --- Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:32 PM Matt Wycoff <mwycoff at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>> Without fully understanding what’s “in your head” I think this
>introduces
>>> the “julies rule” problem :)
>>>
>>> To be more specific good players that game the system to drop down
>to
>>> lower groups to rack points up.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:30 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA
><fspa at fspazone.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd think they get the same zero points as if they just forfeited. 
>To
>>>> be clear, this idea doesn't include preplays either - live play
>only.  In
>>>> the system I'm imagining in my head, they just don't exist for that
>week
>>>> and their ladder position is adjusted to be whatever it ends up
>being
>>>> (formula TBD, but maybe off the top of my head, no-show = previous
>ladder
>>>> position minus 2 spots).
>>>>
>>>> In a system like that, you don't need to drop people from the
>league
>>>> after X weeks either.  If someone quits, they just drop to the
>bottom
>>>> collecting zeros and no one cares.  You can still do the drop-2
>idea to
>>>> help smooth things for those that can't be there every week.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        --- Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:18 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA
><fspa at fspazone.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How does that affect the person that didn't make it to league that
>>>>> night? Do they just not get any points if everyone else is being
>paired up
>>>>> around them?
>>>>>
>>>>> On June 29, 2021 10:04:16 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <
>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Preplays might be better, but that's just choosing the best of
>two bad
>>>>>> options. No one likes playing against mystery scores where you
>have no idea
>>>>>> how the game was set up or whether they played by the rules
>(multiple extra
>>>>>> balls?) or whether it's just a made up score. And you're still
>playing by
>>>>>> yourself if everyone else in your group doesn't show up, so you
>haven't
>>>>>> solved that problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue isn't preplays vs. drop-2, it's the fixed groups. If we
>had
>>>>>> a system where players checked in before league then we just peel
>them off
>>>>>> in groups of 3 or 4, the "number of people in the group" problem
>disappears.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'd need a different laddering system, but surely that's
>solveable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 9:52 PM Matt Wycoff via FSPA
><fspa at fspazone.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s a trade off, you can force four player groups in the
>software
>>>>>>> but with “many” groups you can run into game backlogs especially
>with top
>>>>>>> heavy leagues like many of us have.  (Good players).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To compensate for this, if there are enough location games you
>can
>>>>>>> have more 3 player groups but you do run the risk of a 1 person
>group from
>>>>>>> time to time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:48 PM Stephen Jonke via FSPA <
>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That’s how it should have been handled by the rules, but the
>>>>>>>> question is do 1 player groups happen more often with the drop
>2 worst
>>>>>>>> weeks rule? Maybe. It will be interesting to see what happens
>in the last 2
>>>>>>>> weeks, and especially last week.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, 9:36 PM -0400, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <
>>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org>, wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you mean “reorganized” groups?  You can combine people
>into
>>>>>>>> groups for socially competitive purposes but the rules clearly
>state..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> “ If only one player in a group is present and eligible to play
>(or
>>>>>>>> has preplay scores for) a game, that player earns a win by
>forfeit and
>>>>>>>> receives three (3) game points. That player still plays the
>game and his
>>>>>>>> score will be recorded for statistical purposes.”
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:28 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <
>>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And that makes it tough for those of us that don't have set
>>>>>>>>> schedules at work and can potentially get stuck at any moment.
>In my case I
>>>>>>>>> always try my best to send a notice but it can be easy to get
>caught up
>>>>>>>>> trying to make it in time that you totally miss what time it
>actually is.
>>>>>>>>> Whether it actually *is* any better or not, I felt a lot less
>stressed
>>>>>>>>> knowing I had preplays on standby just in case.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For various reasons I feel a lot better when there is a backup
>set
>>>>>>>>> of preplays that can be used in this situation. At the very
>least there
>>>>>>>>> needs to be clear expectations of what the limits are if we
>stick with the
>>>>>>>>> no prepay/drop two rule but for me personally the undated
>preplay system
>>>>>>>>> worked well and if we were taking a poll that would be my
>preference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On June 29, 2021 9:12:34 PM EDT, Deb Kapke via FSPA <
>>>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I feel like if we have a drop-2 rule then we also need a
>>>>>>>>>> let-a-league-officer-know-you-won’t-be-here rule.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It can be mission critical.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Kevin Stone via FSPA <
>>>>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I thought dropping 2 scores would be better than preplays,
>but it
>>>>>>>>>> is absolutely not. We would have had two 1 actual player
>groups tonight in
>>>>>>>>>> first and last group,  but adjusted groups.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2 player groups SUCK.  You can crush a game and still get 1
>point
>>>>>>>>>> for 2nd place.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you can figure this shit out,  I'm impressed. Edan and I
>got it
>>>>>>>>>> re-organized but it was a pain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [image: Image]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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