[FSPA] Preplays are better

Tue Jun 29 23:00:35 EDT 2021

Oh man, I loved pre-plays. Nothing quite like having to be up against Joe
Schober or Edan in the last week, then bailing out and substituting some of
my best scores all season. The reactions from them the week after were
always golden.

(I kid of course… OK, maybe not.)

At least with pre-plays, they are only as good as whatever you put up when
you are logging them. You still have to actually play if you want good
pre-play scores. What Kevin is talking about sounds like a bad situation,
period.

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:44 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
wrote:

> So from my point of view (I'm fully understanding the POV you are coming
> from, however) it's effectively the same as the drop 2 rule except it's
> worse because we don't actually drop those two :)
>
> I really do get the sides of this argument and I hate the sandbagging and
> cheating possibilities that come with the territory of the preplay rules
> but, at the same time, were it not for that option I likely would have
> never joined FSPA in the first place and previously when I bowled I
> actually left a league for another because they didn't allow the "bowl out"
> option.
>
> People want different things out of league and there's nothing wrong with
> that but, at the same time, it comes down to what is the lesser of two
> evils. I'm not sure if my situation is the same as the majority or just a
> minority but I know I'm not alone. For me it's just hard to play my best
> and party dues and everything if I knew there always the possibility that I
> could get screwed out of my efforts by stuff that's beyond my control.....
> Anything that helps buffer that is a huge thing.
>
> One of the things that I always thought is that preplays should be played
> with someone else that is part of the league or, at the very least,
> supervised by someone. That would help alleviate some of the risk of
> cheating. No, it'll never be the same thing but I think there is a better
> balance between accommodating and free-for-all.
>
>
> On June 29, 2021 10:29:21 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> I'd think they get the same zero points as if they just forfeited.  To be
>> clear, this idea doesn't include preplays either - live play only.  In the
>> system I'm imagining in my head, they just don't exist for that week and
>> their ladder position is adjusted to be whatever it ends up being (formula
>> TBD, but maybe off the top of my head, no-show = previous ladder position
>> minus 2 spots).
>>
>> In a system like that, you don't need to drop people from the league
>> after X weeks either.  If someone quits, they just drop to the bottom
>> collecting zeros and no one cares.  You can still do the drop-2 idea to
>> help smooth things for those that can't be there every week.
>>
>>        --- Dave
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:18 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How does that affect the person that didn't make it to league that
>>> night? Do they just not get any points if everyone else is being paired up
>>> around them?
>>>
>>> On June 29, 2021 10:04:16 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <
>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Preplays might be better, but that's just choosing the best of two bad
>>>> options. No one likes playing against mystery scores where you have no idea
>>>> how the game was set up or whether they played by the rules (multiple extra
>>>> balls?) or whether it's just a made up score. And you're still playing by
>>>> yourself if everyone else in your group doesn't show up, so you haven't
>>>> solved that problem.
>>>>
>>>> The issue isn't preplays vs. drop-2, it's the fixed groups. If we had a
>>>> system where players checked in before league then we just peel them off in
>>>> groups of 3 or 4, the "number of people in the group" problem disappears.
>>>>
>>>> You'd need a different laddering system, but surely that's solveable.
>>>>
>>>> --- Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 9:52 PM Matt Wycoff via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It’s a trade off, you can force four player groups in the software but
>>>>> with “many” groups you can run into game backlogs especially with top heavy
>>>>> leagues like many of us have.  (Good players).
>>>>>
>>>>> To compensate for this, if there are enough location games you can
>>>>> have more 3 player groups but you do run the risk of a 1 person group from
>>>>> time to time.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:48 PM Stephen Jonke via FSPA <
>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That’s how it should have been handled by the rules, but the question
>>>>>> is do 1 player groups happen more often with the drop 2 worst weeks rule?
>>>>>> Maybe. It will be interesting to see what happens in the last 2 weeks, and
>>>>>> especially last week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, 9:36 PM -0400, Matt Wycoff via FSPA <
>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org>, wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you mean “reorganized” groups?  You can combine people into
>>>>>> groups for socially competitive purposes but the rules clearly state..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “ If only one player in a group is present and eligible to play (or
>>>>>> has preplay scores for) a game, that player earns a win by forfeit and
>>>>>> receives three (3) game points. That player still plays the game and his
>>>>>> score will be recorded for statistical purposes.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 9:28 PM Bob K Mertz via FSPA <
>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And that makes it tough for those of us that don't have set
>>>>>>> schedules at work and can potentially get stuck at any moment. In my case I
>>>>>>> always try my best to send a notice but it can be easy to get caught up
>>>>>>> trying to make it in time that you totally miss what time it actually is.
>>>>>>> Whether it actually *is* any better or not, I felt a lot less stressed
>>>>>>> knowing I had preplays on standby just in case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For various reasons I feel a lot better when there is a backup set
>>>>>>> of preplays that can be used in this situation. At the very least there
>>>>>>> needs to be clear expectations of what the limits are if we stick with the
>>>>>>> no prepay/drop two rule but for me personally the undated preplay system
>>>>>>> worked well and if we were taking a poll that would be my preference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On June 29, 2021 9:12:34 PM EDT, Deb Kapke via FSPA <
>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I feel like if we have a drop-2 rule then we also need a
>>>>>>>> let-a-league-officer-know-you-won’t-be-here rule.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can be mission critical.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Kevin Stone via FSPA <
>>>>>>>> fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I thought dropping 2 scores would be better than preplays, but it
>>>>>>>> is absolutely not. We would have had two 1 actual player groups tonight in
>>>>>>>> first and last group,  but adjusted groups.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2 player groups SUCK.  You can crush a game and still get 1 point
>>>>>>>> for 2nd place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can figure this shit out,  I'm impressed. Edan and I got it
>>>>>>>> re-organized but it was a pain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [image: Image]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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