[FSPA] FSPA: MOM's Organic Pinball Results for 09/29/2021 (Meet #2)

Fri Oct 1 10:52:23 EDT 2021

I’m actually working on a new groupie thingie for Mustang Sally to minimize number of groups using games from top 2 groups (and none used between those two groups).  Started this last league night this past Tuesday.  Still using the basic games being chosen by each group, then fill out the rest of the “groupie thingy” randomly (seeding the games into the method).  This is a lot easier than when we did this at Mighty Mike’s because at that location there were more groups than games.  Nice to have the opposite at MSB.  I’m working on a version with 13 games for 6, 7 and 8 groups.  I’ll share when done.

Kevin

From: FSPA [mailto:fspa-bounces at fspazone.org] On Behalf Of Joe Kosack via FSPA
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:55 PM
To: FSPA main discussion list
Cc: Joe Kosack
Subject: Re: [FSPA] FSPA: MOM's Organic Pinball Results for 09/29/2021 (Meet #2)

As the creator of the spreadsheet, it’s really good at adapting the groups for up to 13 machines with the FSPA grouping thingy as a base.  However, I ended up just making up my own brackets once we got beyond 13 machines at VBH to minimize wait times as much as humanly possible.  There’s no way to completely eliminate wait times, but we had fewer groups waiting on Groups 1 and 2.

Joe K
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:57 PM, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:

Very interesting, thanks for explaining. Things seem to have evolved quite a bit from the infamous "FSPA grouping thingy"

--- Dave

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 7:31 PM Rob Wintler-Cox <rwintlercox at gmail.com<mailto:rwintlercox at gmail.com>> wrote:
We don’t use shuffle at MOM’s when I select the games because despite what Steve said you end up with groups following others. For example, I just plugged in last night’s game picks and shuffle had group 2 right behind group 1 after the first game.

For MOM’s I use a spreadsheet based on the sheet Joe K used at VBH which I believe was originally built by Scott. It is more curated than random so that groups don’t end up behind each other, but you do end up with patterns like the one you indicated. Eventually I plan to make it completely random, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.

John used shuffle back when I was leaving early and recused myself from game selection. We can try it again if you want to see how it works.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 7:09 PM Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa at fspazone.org>> wrote:
Hm, that would lead me to believe that games 2,3,4 are random, and looking at the results on this thread for MOMs, there are definitely patterns.

Group 3 went 8BD -> Metallica > Iron Maiden -> BKSOR
Group 6 went Iron Maiden -> BKSOR -> 8BD -> Metallica

Group 4 went Dialed In -> AFM -> AIQ -> Hot Tip
Group 5 went AIQ -> Hot Tip -> Dialed In -> AFM

That's a loop of the same games for those group pairs, which seems really odd if a true shuffle is happening.  Week 1 doesn't exhibit this pattern though.

MOM's brass: how are y'all doing game sets?  I'm really curious now.

       --- Dave

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 6:11 PM steve <flynnibus at yahoo.com<mailto:flynnibus at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>You likely won't know who picked what, but you will know what games were picked and therefore which games are
> going to show up in other people's groups

I don't think any of the leagues have been using this method for some time.  That was the old paper distribution model where the available games for the night were taken from the game picks, and then distributed in a following pattern intended to have higher groups follow lower groups.

But since the migration to the tatersoft software, there is a 'shuffle' feature that doesn't use the same game assignment logic.  It simply picks a game you haven't played, that also hasn't been assigned yet for that round.  Does that for each group, then repeats for each round.  So it selects from the pool of location games and decides based on avoiding conflicts, not based on which games were picked for round 1.

-Steve

On Thursday, September 30, 2021, 06:04:29 PM EDT, Dave Hubbard via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa at fspazone.org>> wrote:

They are definitely overrated.  It's one game out of 40 that you play in a season.  It's insignificant unless your league officer(s) use a progression for determining the other games in your group that involve everyone else's game picks, in which case people with later game picks can, theoretically, pick games in other groups as well.

Something like this.  Imagine you have 12 machines for league, noted A through L for simplicity.

Group 1 picks machine A
Group 2 picks machine B
...
Group 8 is last to pick, and 7 machines have already been chosen.  This group's pick will be game H, leaving I/J/K/L to be assigned randomly to the progression.

Every group in groups 1-7 that includes slot H is effectively chosen by group 8's game picker, and you can trace this back up the groups as well (for example, there's probably a few groups that include G, chosen by group 7).

So basically, game picks are not just your pick unless your SLO is filling out the other 3 games randomly.  You likely won't know who picked what, but you will know what games were picked and therefore which games are going to show up in other people's groups.  If you know the progression (and your SLO uses the same one every week) then with a little effort you can know which other groups are going to get the game you pick for your group, and that might be advantageous.

        --- Dave

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 3:13 PM Kevin Stone via FSPA <fspa at fspazone.org<mailto:fspa at fspazone.org>> wrote:

I think game picks are overrated.  Every time I’ve picked a game, I end up playing horrible on it.

From: FSPA [mailto:fspa-bounces+pinball<mailto:fspa-bounces%2Bpinball>=kevinsplanet.com at fspazone.org<mailto:kevinsplanet.com at fspazone.org>] On Behalf Of Joe Schober via FSPA
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 11:47 PM
To: FSPA main discussion list
Cc: Joe Schober
Subject: Re: [FSPA] FSPA: MOM's Organic Pinball Results for 09/29/2021 (Meet #2)

Steph wrote...

I don’t understand the ladder movement. I won my group but stayed in the same group, I suppose this has to do with rearranging the groups into three person groups after this meet but now who gets game picks?

"At each meet, the winner of each group who has moved up (except the winner of group 1) will choose their new group’s first machine to be played. In the lowest group, the lowest-ranked player will choose the first machine to be played. If there is a conflict due to dropouts and regrouping, then the lowest-ranked player in each affected group will have the machine pick."

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