[FSPA] League questions - player opinions wanted
Zee Roe
zero at rawbw.com
Sun May 12 13:58:56 EDT 2024
+1 to all of this. I never joined FSPA (though I come to events now and
then) partially because it's a pain for me to get to most of the
locations regularly, but also because there were always too many rules
for my liking. I'd much rather play in a more casual league and if I get
grouped with the best person there, that's great! I will probably learn
a bunch of secrets on whatever game we're playing; I don't play often
enough any more to understand the rulesets of most of the new games
deeply. Maybe someday. :) And I, too, do not care what WPPR/IFPA is.
But since I'm not a regular, definitely take this feedback with a grain
of salt. :)
On 5/12/2024 1:29 PM, Jeff Brocketti via FSPA wrote:
> I’m sure many of you have no idea who I am, but I’ve been reading all
> of these posts by everyone and thought I’d chime in. My wife Julie and
> I started playing in FSPA back when it was located at the NOVA
> Annandale campus. My wife found it in its infancy and introduced me to
> it and we were loyal players until we moved away in 2006. What I
> remember about that experience is having a fun two hour escape from
> life, learning more about pinball, and hanging out with great people.
> When we moved back in 2011, I found John’s Place and played there
> until it shut down and had the same great experiences. I would
> sometimes get my butt kicked by Chris Newsome and a very young Ethan
> Blonders (who could barely see the playfield). I would always be
> amazed at how Scott Sidley could fix just about anything in exchange
> for a Mexican Coke. But I always looked forward to it and had a great
> time. I feel like these types of things are what most people remember
> about playing in FSPA.
>
> I always seek out pinball when I’m anywhere that might have a machine.
> I’ve been to the pinball hall of fame in Vegas at each of the three
> places it’s been located. Bottom line…I consider myself a pinball
> enthusiast, yet I also have no idea what WPPR is nor do I really care
> (not to take anything away from anyone who does). I play because it’s
> fun and FSPA gave me an opportunity to hang out with other pinball
> nerds who can discuss rulesets and actually care. I’ve only competed
> in one tournament but that is because FSPA hosted it in Fairfax and it
> sounded fun. I’ve never been to Pinburgh. I have no idea if I have a
> ranking because I’ve never bothered checking.
>
> So if anything I would be MORE interested in a casual league than a
> super competitive one. I would rather have fun in a format that works
> than play in a format that is worse because I’m never going to be a
> world class player. I just want to have fun, period. I did like one of
> the previous ideas of having the “casual” league start an hour or so
> before the “competitive” league. That way, you’re also not waiting for
> an hour for a machine to open up.
>
> As far as the parties go, I only attended when they were at people’s
> homes so I can’t comment on the commercial locations. But other than
> getting to play well maintained games for free, I never really enjoyed
> the parties much anyway. I much preferred when the prizes were awarded
> immediately on site after the playoffs ended. If I were still playing,
> I wouldn’t attend parties and would either like an opt out or just nix
> them all together.
>
> Sorry for the length of the email. 🙂
>
> Jeff
>
>> On May 12, 2024, at 12:25 PM, Steve Jones via FSPA
>> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've been playing in the league for 5 years (at least until Spinners
>> closed..) and to be honest, I have no idea what a WPPR is..
>>
>> On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 12:15 PM Dan Reynolds via FSPA
>> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It shouldn’t be surprising that people who don’t even play in the
>> league anymore don’t care about WPPRs.
>>
>>> On May 12, 2024, at 9:45 AM, Stephen Jonke via FSPA
>>> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> As I said before, I’m absolutely in favor of dropping WPPRs and
>>> then doing what’s fun instead of what complies. On top of that,
>>> let’s just say that the FSPA shrinks as a result. Is that so
>>> bad? Suddenly house parties become an option again in that case.
>>> Though I suspect dropping WPPRs will not cause a mass exodus.
>>>
>>> For me an issue is we no longer have a league in Maryland. I
>>> can’t drive to the VA locations every week. Or rather I could,
>>> but all that driving is not great. Don’t know what can be done
>>> about that.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> On May 11, 2024 at 2:09 PM -0400, Barry Schwartz via FSPA
>>> <fspa at fspazone.org>, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Party-I love a good pinball party and especially love
>>>> reconnecting with old FSPA friends. I also appreciate party
>>>> games and the surrounding friendly competition and they
>>>> motivate me to attend. However, I generally am unwilling to
>>>> travel an hour or more just for a party and frankly, pizza
>>>> demotivates me. So, I have only attended sparsely in the past
>>>> few years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Competition format-I don’t care much about WPPRs as I don’t
>>>> play enough events in a year nor am I good enough to be top
>>>> rated. I started playing in FSPA and would happily continue
>>>> without them. I’m in it for the balanced but friendly
>>>> competition and camaraderie it brings. I’ve developed many
>>>> friendships through league affiliation. The competition is also
>>>> important to my experience as it excites me in a way that
>>>> little else does. That’s why I participate in occasional
>>>> tournaments. But, it’s immediate and local vs IFPAs state and
>>>> world levels. So, I vote for the FSPA to focus on balanced
>>>> friendly competition and frankly think too much attention is
>>>> paid to WPPRs in the pinball community. The IFPA exists for the
>>>> top 1%, not for me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Barry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 11, 2024, at 11:57 AM, Dave Hubbard via FSPA
>>>>> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:08 AM Sergio Johnson via FSPA
>>>>> <fspa at fspazone.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Calling the party contribution a “tax” is a bit unfair
>>>>> lol. It’s an association benefit that some folks choose
>>>>> not to take advantage of but that others like. The reality
>>>>> is that everyone subsidizes something else in the league
>>>>> that may not be for them, but someone else takes advantage of.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, call it whatever you want, it's a part of dues that I'm
>>>>> essentially just setting on fire. I am FAR from alone on
>>>>> this. By your own admission, the party isn't self-sustaining
>>>>> and depends on significant no-shows to even happen. Is that
>>>>> healthy? It's probably getting worse with the rising cost of
>>>>> everything, and I assume that raising dues just to cover
>>>>> increased party costs is a non-starter (at least I hope it
>>>>> is). All I'm asking is to really rethink whether it's worth
>>>>> it, and offer an opt-out for those that have no interest.
>>>>> There's a way to find out for sure: do a survey, poll the
>>>>> playerbase, ask if people would rather pay $40/season with
>>>>> party, or $30/season and no party. Let's gather some data.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are players who have never made the playoffs or very
>>>>> rarely do, yet there they are, season after season
>>>>> contributing to the prize pool that frequently goes to the
>>>>> same subset of players at the top end. They’re subsidizing
>>>>> the prize fund. Some folks really don’t want to own a
>>>>> pinball machine, (I know, go figure!), but get entered
>>>>> into the drawing anyway. The party isn’t any different,
>>>>> and clearly $10 a head isn’t covering the costs of it.
>>>>> When we came up with the cost years ago it was with the
>>>>> assumption that not all would likely attend. I guess we
>>>>> could go to a “a la carte” system for all of it but it
>>>>> would be an administrative headache trying to keep track
>>>>> of who is “in” for prizes, party and giveaway. That said,
>>>>> we could make all of those optional and really get bare
>>>>> bones with it. Something to think about. Does the size of
>>>>> the prize pool or trophies matter to folks?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is disingenuous. FSPA's playoff structure has always
>>>>> included a multitude of divisions such that even the worst
>>>>> players in the league can have a legitimate shot at their
>>>>> division playoffs, and therefore win something. It's not just
>>>>> bad players subsidizing "the top end." No one is asking for
>>>>> opt-in (or opt-out) to the prize pool, which wouldn't make any
>>>>> sense. I don't think anyone is asking for an opt-out for the
>>>>> giveaway machine, it's essentially just a raffle.
>>>>>
>>>>> To your last question, the size of the prize pool doesn't
>>>>> entirely matter to me, as long as it's something. Trophies do
>>>>> not matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> The private feedback that I’ve gotten so far is that folks
>>>>> really hate the wide disparities in skill levels seen in
>>>>> the early weeks of the new system. It was not a fun
>>>>> experience for them. Unfortunately that’s the cost of
>>>>> doing business with the IFPA. If anyone has any additional
>>>>> feedback on that or other topics, I’d love to hear it!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a feeling... but it might be time to decide whether FSPA
>>>>> wants to be a competitive thing or a casual thing. I know the
>>>>> party line in the past was trying to strike some sort of
>>>>> balance, but if people really hate the result of kowtowing to
>>>>> IFPA in an attempt to keep points, maybe it's time to pick a
>>>>> side. Believe it or not, I actually think you should lean
>>>>> into the casual side. Competitive players who care about
>>>>> points will continue to go to tournaments. FSPA can exist for
>>>>> the more casual/social side, and without having to worry about
>>>>> the IFPA, you can go back to the ladder system and/or do
>>>>> whatever you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Dave
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> FSPA at fspazone.org
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